At the moment, my biggest sticking point is LMR. I am probably Fclosing about half the time, but the other half I get LMR and don't go any further.

Now my understanding of the technique is that you are supposed to stop completely, say "I respect not doing anything you're not comfortable with", and then she will be so put out that she now has nothing that she will actually have sex with you.

I have two problems with this:

Firstly, what if she just says "well, we don't have to go all the way, can't we just go half way there?" or something to that effect.

Secondly, if she doesn't want to do it, is it right to manipulate and persuade her to do it? I know people will say that on some levels, she really does want to, but I'm sure that on some levels we all want to kill people as well, but that doesn't make it right to convince people to go around killing people. It seems that it is our more rational and conscious level that is the one saying "Don't have sex" "Don't kill people", while it is a more instinctive level saying "have sex" "kill people". It seems like we should be treating the rational level as more representative of the person's true state of mind and desires, so is it right to gang up with the instinctive level against that rational level?

I want to address your final point first as it is an interesting discussion that I think needs to be had.
There are several fundamental differences between persuading a woman to give in to her desire to fuck you and killing people, the most obvious being that in the first example no one's rights are actually being violated. The idea is not to manipulate or "trick" her into sex; it's to make her realize that's what she WANTS, and that doing what she WANTS instead of what she thinks she HAS to will ultimately make her feel better. The multiple orgasms you will surely give her in return for her cooperation should abate any regrets that might creep up about that decision
I have personally never heard this statement cross the lips of any of my romantic interests. That said, I am a big fan of drawing things out a little bit and not necessarily rushing to sex as soon as she'll allow it. The "No Sex, Sex Gambit" link in my signature is a fun game I came up with to this end. Perhaps if you are uncomfortable using "traditional" LMR procedure you might enjoy the game too. Check it out.

The biggest thing to take into account when dealing with LMR is whether she is physically stopping you or just saying "We shouldn't do this." Verbal resistance usually isn't resistance at all, it's just something she feels compelled to say due to years of social programming. Actually stopping you, on the other hand, is usually more serious.

The bottom line is do what you're comfortable with. "Plowing through LMR" isn't absolutely necessary to having a complete, fulfilling sexual relationship with a woman. You can always have sex tomorrow

Your boy,
870

_________________
"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)

I am not comparing sex to killing people. My point is that we all have certain instincts on some basic level of our minds. The instinct to have sex is one of them. I'm sure we have a bloodlust on some level as well. We also probably have a range of other instincts for other things as well. But we also have a conscious rational mind that gives us self control and enables people to live together and co-operate. If we didn't have that, there would probably be chaos.

Now in the case of bloodlust, almost everyone knows rationally that it's not ok to be violent and we are generally very good at controlling these instincts.

In the case of sex, we know that consensual sex is perfectly ok and in fact good for you and don't need to supress any desire to have sex - though of course if a girl says no flat out, then it's no.

If we are to act ethically, then surely we should be respecting the desires of others and if not assisting others to attain those desires, then at least not standing in their way - all other things being equal.

So the real question is: when a woman is giving LMR, which of her desires should we respect?

She has two competing desires - there is the instinctive desire to have sex, and the more rational desire to form a long term relationship.

It's a bit like if a heroin addict asks you to help them get off drugs. They are halfway through a week long detox and come to you and ask you to let them have some drugs. Do you go with their immediate desire for drugs or the longer term desire to get off heroin?


I know I have made some assumptions about women's desires above, and don't get me wrong, nothing annoys me more than society's sexual double standard. If I could change one thing about the world, I would make it so that women don't think they have to have LTRs to find fulfillment. I am open to debate about this because I think there is not enough talk about ethics in the community.