Ok, not always but almost always I have this huge sticking point. It will sound pathetic, but it is the truth. I have grown kind of tired of pursuing women in that I often will end up in situations where I'm out on a date with a woman and she will always be uncomfortable or nervous. I'm a socially awkward guy and I sometimes don't know exactly what to talk about, but even when we are socially interacting and things seem to be going smooth, it almost never works out when I try to make a move. I will often have my kino rejected, not always, but often and almost always, when I wait for a moment of silence where the woman is kind of pausing to stare off, I will try to surprise kiss her and she always does that classic pull back, LMR shit. Anyway, I just play computer games all the time because I think they are awesome. I will sometimes chat with women online on apps like tinder, but it always seems like a waste of time. For example, last night I started chatting with this one woman who said I'm really attractive in my photo and we ended up exchanging numbers and talked for about an hour. I told her that if we meet up I want to go slowly and kiss and touch a little, but no sex. As soon as I said that, she was like ummm no kissing and touching. I was pissed because later she said ok, we will go slow and later when I said the same thing about 30 minutes later to confirm before ending the call, she changed her mind and said no? I hate this because it is just a verbal form of LMR. We were talking and really engaging each other and as soon as I brought up something even remotely sexual she pulled back why? I know people on here are going to say that I'm going too fast or whatever, but I don't think that is really it because the best pulls I have had in the past (when I had the patience to actually sarge) were from fast, aggressive game. Anyway, now I often feel like there is no point in setting up a date with any woman without knowing that I'm going to either have sex or at least make out with her to avoid the predictable LMR that will of course take place while on the date. Does anyone have any tips on how to escalate via chat or over the phone before meeting so that I can be sure that the woman I will meet up with isn't going to waste my time with LMR bs?

You can try prostitutes or be a sugar daddy. Another option is being straight up about what you're looking for, but you'll disqualify a lot more girls then necessary.

Realistically, you have to quit being weird and accept that lmr is part of the game.

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No. Just no.

Stop saying to women what you're going to do before even meeting them. If a guy said that to me, in a weird awkward voice (you say you're socially awkward, and you probably come off like that on the phone too), I would think twice about meeting him.

Don't use words like 'chill' or 'hangout', either. You might want to do this, but it just doesn't sound charming. More like you're a college kid trying to go out for a beer or something.

Try to sound more suave. But since you're socially awkward, that will be difficult.

Your solution is simpler than it seems. When you have this pre-defined goal, then you will be constantly looking for the opening to take the kiss or make the move. As much as that seems like it's smart, it isn't. You're putting pressure on her, and yourself, to make things happen. This is WHY she has to show IOI's. If she is, then you will know that the moment is coming. Until then, enjoy the conversation as much as you can. Some women you will never see the IOI's and you have to accept that rather than force the move. If it doesn't come effortlessly, which only happens when BOTH of you are willing, then it shouldn't be pursued at all. The awkwardness comes from this looming feeling of you waiting for more. Seriously. Invest in the moment and where ever the interaction goes without worrying too much about "what's going to happen." You will argue if you don't "make it happen" then it won't but it's quite the opposite. Women will lead the interaction in your case to a point they feel comfortable and once they've signaled what they want you can oblige. Don't be pushy. If she's interested, and you are too, it will happen like a gravitational pull brought your two mouths together. Excuse the analogy.

Guys that get friendZoned a lot make this same mistake. They try to show sexual interest in order for her to signal IOI's instead of the other way around. If things are going well, she won't be going anywhere. Just know it might start off as "platonic", which is really just starting slow and showing you have some standards and don't fall in love with them at first sight, but if it has attraction that comes from that, you both will eventually communicate that without having to say it verbally. Get better at reading body language and realize every girl you meet or talk to or hang out with won't always want to escalate and you should error on the side of caution for now until you callibrate to when they are just playing their cards close to their chest, and when they are actually disinterested.

And since you might overthink things, don't get caught up in analyzing her behavior looking for IOI's. Instead, set some landmarks. After ten minutes of conversation, see how her body language has changed. Where has the topics gone? Make it every now and then that you even consider where she is coming from. Enjoy yourself. Have her enjoy herself. Don't over analyze because it pulls you from the interaction at hand. She will make it clear if you are not "catching on."

What?

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Haha, okay here is your short term answer that tells you what not to do. Don't "confirm" making out because it takes out the mystery and also it's just you giving yourself confidence. It is a symptom of you being doubtful of your ability to escalate with her and you not wanting to be rejected. Secondly, your mindset is all messed up and you need to focus more on the interaction going well enough to even have a chance to escalate rather than escalating. Your social awkwardness in other words.

Thank you for the long and detailed reply, but the problem in my life is that woman don't ever send me IOI's when I'm on dates or out and about in public. Women might send me really subtle IOI's but nothing ever really super obvious...unless I'm just autistic and don't catch any nonverbal IOI's that are not subtle. I'm familiar with common IOI's in public, but what are some IOI's women send me on dates? I have no idea.

I noticed a pattern though, I will usually choose a quiet, isolated location where I can try to escalate the best I can and the women will always seem super nervous, shy or even afraid. I have also noticed that women I go on dates with will be sitting right next to me, but they will refuse to make eye contact with me. I think it goes back to the fact that I just have a scary face with sharp features. While we are talking, I will be looking at the side of the woman's face for the majority of the night while she is talking "to me" yet staring off into space or something. It is really rude and pisses me off, but I know it is just because I'm creeping them out by just being my usual self. I have actually told women to look into my eyes or look at me while I'm talking to them. I even walked away from this woman while "on a date" with her because she made eye contact with me like 2 times in the course of like an hour and I just said ok fuck this shit, got up and walked off. She asked where I was going and I said to find a woman that at least can look at my face while talking to me. So my life is mainly a series of super strange, awkward situations with women that usually end on really bad notes.

I want to make clear that I do get laid once in a while when I put a lot of effort into it, but even if I'm successful, it is so draining that all my emotions feel drained for literally months upon months afterward. I also feel that it is too emotionally draining to maintain the relationships I do have in my life.

Maybe I have some emotional problems as well as social problems that go hand and hand. I hope I have made my situation more clear. I would appreciate some tips on how to avoid LMR and the general lack of interest from the opposite sex.

You would think because I enjoy playing PC games and video games so much, that I would enjoy the game in real life with women, but I hate it.

I hate how difficult women make it for socially awkward people like me. I know they don't mean to cause me this much suffering intentionally and that all they are trying to do by "playing hard to get" or not come across as "easy" is just to make things more exciting for men who don't suffer with the issues that I do.

Funny but not useful information at all.

I have pulled off the suave talk before but it is difficult because I have to use all the energy I have to pretend I'm somebody I'm not. I have also gone on dates where I told the women we will "hangout" but they never seem to catch on and realize that was code for let's have sex...so more LMR bs.

Your solution is exactly as I outlined it. You are putting so much emphasis on escalating that it puts the pressure on the interaction. Don't go into the interaction even knowing if you want to sleep with them. The notion AND misconception of pick up is FUCK FUCK FUCK but without standards you're just a dog. Make her qualify herself. Feel legitimate attraction for them before you escalate. Start off NOT in the quiet corner where she is bound to feel uncomfortable with a stranger, since she will feel uncomfortable even in a busy place with a stranger. When she finally gives you IOI's then you can move to somewhere you can escalate. They are probably avoiding eye contact because they are uncomfortable or intimidated or they don't want you to get the wrong impression. They don't want you to escalate. So change your game plan. Take things down a notch. You'll get IOI's when she is ready to move forward. It should be a natural progression. Don't put the cart before the horse.

No women is going to read between the lines like that unless she has shown sexual interest. If she friend zoned you, then she will take hanging out literally.

I sometimes notice when dating women or when seeing women in public, they will often do this strange thing. They will suddenly sit up really straight and have one hand behind their head and they will just be frozen in this pose staring off into space or glancing at me in the corner of their eye? Wtf is this? They seem so nervous they froze in fear maybe? Sure doesn't seem like an IOI

Who cares what it looks like they are doing. Just assume attraction. Get over the LMR shit. Girls are designed to do that in today's culture. Even if they are easy they will just do it and say shit so they won't feel as guilty because society still slut shames. Just make her feel comfortable in your presence. Let her get comfortable to fuck you

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