I don't know if this is universal or specific to where I live... either way, my life experience tells me that there are quite a lot of girls who expect the man to be persistent. By this, I mean a girl expecting a guy:

• Call her again and again even if she does not answer calls
• Show her signs of attention even if she does not show much interest etc.

Now that I've been in PUA community for a while, this sounds like pure AFC behavior to me Like many of you, I've been well-trained not no show any neediness (abundance mentality, "recognize you are the prize" - you know what I'm talking about), and it's been told numerous times that girls love alpha males who never chase any women.

On the other hand, I have a feeling that I'm losing a fair share of good girls by "bailing out" too quickly. I realized that I do not quite understand where's this fine line between being persistent strong man and a needy frustrated chump. What's worse, I've seen cases where guys were getting really good girls by being persistent and doing things anyone on this board would call AFCish (like sending flowers with a messenger, buying gifts etc.)

While I wouldn't call myself over-confident, thanks to this board I feel much more confident with women than many men they interact with... and while it is being said confidence is a chick magnet, I have a feeling that for certain kinds of women (which, BTW?) this might actually act as a repellent. As crazy as it might sound, but I'm starting to think some women really want a man they can control and for whom they won't need to compete.

I don't know, perhaps I've been too much into Mystery's works... perhaps this "prize" mentality is indeed for night club hotties and one would need quite a different approach to seducing, say, 7s with relationships in mind? A piece of sound advice would be really appreciated!

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I'm looking for more class rather than just ass

I think you are confusing beliefs (confidence) and behavior (chasing). Needy guys do not assert their boundaries, usually because of a lack of self-esteem. This causes them to inadvertently reward bad behaviors by sending flowers, buying gifts, or generally giving attention, regardless of whether the girl deserves it. Once you've shed the neediness, you are able to discern what you want and what you don't want. This allows you to reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. You may still send her flowers, buy her gifts or generally give her attention, but only when you think she deserves it.

This next bit is speculation and possibly exaggeration on my part, but I think there is truth in it. If you hardly ever give attention, you will be the 'bad boy' and attract women who are completely dependent on your approval, i.e. the type of women who end up in shelters because their boyfriends beat them. If you give too much attention, you will be the 'nice guy' and attract women who thrive on your attention but will never give any back, i.e. the manipulative bitches who end up cheating on you. Only if you are able are able to recognize what behaviors you want to reward and learn to genuinely do so, only if you can find a balance between giving too much and giving too little, only then will attract women who reciprocate that attention in the way that you want, and with whom you can have healthy and long-lasting relationship.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Then, this is my speculation as well! I've been kind of suspecting this and it's really cool someone else can confirm it. Thanks, man, this answers a part of my question as women with serious issues with self-esteem are certainly not my type.
Hmmm... never thought of this that way, thanks for giving another perspective!
Do you happen to know any good posts/articles dedicated to this topic? Because... well, now I realize that finding that balance is the gist of my original question

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I'm looking for more class rather than just ass

Im in a similer situation and around here yea,chumps flooded the market. Im dating a 6/7 mainly but she's not that smart and genuinly busy with her homework(she had to copy all my lab reports.....). Today we got together finally in class and she just seemed nervous(allways asking if im mad at her and shit). Im a believer of natural game since the ross jefries days so im strongly eyeing the next button,you might consider it too.

The difference lies in your mindset and where you are coming from.

If you ARE needy, then your actions will be needy.

If you are persistent i.e. pursuing a girl because you find her attractive - then you are not needy.

The line is fine only if you are trying to calculate which side you are on. A typical failing of the budding PUA.

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The natural "Steve" who trained Richard La Ruina (Gambler)

http://www.authenticpua.com/primal-seduction/