So this has happened to me many many, times and I can't seem to get over this.

Basically: I've decided that when I actually LIKE the girl and want to continue to see her, that it's best to not have sex on the first date (I end up resenting them past experience would show me). So I set the frame early on (I set very sexual frames right from the beginning) that we can't have sex tonight, so don't even try.

So, to simplify things, I'll just talk about the latest occurrence:

First 'date' off of an on-line site. Things go very well, we build lots of mutual attraction, I qualify the fuck out of her and she's liking the whole thing. After lots of fun and gaming and teasing and all that playful stuff we end the date with a picnic and some deeper comfort building (with occasional cock funny kinda stuff to keep it a bit lighter). And we make out. Date ends pretty well.

We text and talk on the phone a bunch for a couple days (over 1 hour phone conversations....so I'm thinking comfort is pretty high). Then ALL OF A SUDDEN the girl just seems to start to abruptly lose interest (not responding as fast to texts. Not picking up the conversation...and playing fast a loose with setting up our second date)

QUESTION IS: WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAPPEN THAT BUILDING A LOT OF COMFORT BEFORE YOU HAVE SEX SEEMS TO PUSH THE GIRL AWAY? In nearly ever case, I can look back and think that if I just f-closed right off the bat, then this wouldn't be an issue.

Also: HOW CAN YOU SET THE FRAME OF WANTING TO WAIT AT LEAST UNTIL YOU'VE KNOWN EACH OTHER ONE DAY BEFORE HAVING SEX, WITHOUT PUTTING A LOT OF PRESSURE AND EXPECTATION ON HER FOR THE SECOND DATE?

I can't seem to get through this, and it's happened three times this week....huge sticking point. Do I need to just become ok with f-closing the first night?


Thanks guys

Your post is kind of vague, but I think you are doing something wrong with this:

[quote]So I set the frame early on (I set very sexual frames right from the beginning) that we can't have sex tonight, so don't even try. [quote/]

My point is, you are selling the "let's not have sex" thing in a way that it is an IOD to her. So you are telling her she is cute and stuff, but you are not attracted enough to fuck her. The next day, the girl will be in her bad and have a negative vibe about you. Girls tend to get very negative when things don't "happen".

THerefore, the best thing you can do in the future, is to let things "partially" happen. Like you get really horny, and as soon as your clothes are off you change your mind, because you have to get up early tomorrow and like her so much you want your first time to be "special and romantic".

I have learned that only using the "Hi I am such a socially programmed PUA that I think I should never say or do anything nice" - method. Does not work in the later stages of seduction. It wil alienate you from the girl and you will miss out sweet sex and a great connection.

Work on your seduction game. I know its difficult to show you like her and have the intent of fucking her later, without losing your mysteriousness, dominant frame etc. But its possible.

So my advice, as soon as the girls seems to like you. Give her some hints you like her too, let the sex partially happen and use time constraints to postpone.

good luck!

Buccaneer

_________________
I could not tread these perilous paths in safety, if I did not keep a saving sense of humor. -Admiral Horatio Nelson

Unlike the above poster I dont think your question is vague at all. Ive dealt with the exact same issue, its somewhat of a quality problem, which guys tend to get as their game gets good.

This is the classic "Buyers Remorse" dilemma, if you do F-close on the first night by pumping attraction without enough rapport/comfort you do often get pushed out of the potential boyfriend frame. In an effort to avoid this you are start working comfort and rapport which can work against attraction.

My suggestion is to go ahead and get sexual and go for the f-close asap per your normal modus operandi, as this is still your best buy in for girls you like, but after the close really try to provide comfort and rapport post-facto. Making her feel that you made a real connection, rather then just had a meaningless shag from high emotionally driven liquor infused date, may allow her to re-frame you as having boyfriend potential, rather then just being a seductive asshole who got over.

Of course I usually just try to be the seductive asshole by providing no rapport/comfort as then I dont have to deal with letting them down later on.

Wise words. I think this is spot on. Thanks for the post.

Something to address in your statement though: part of what I'm doing is playing that stupid game where I am the one to say we're NOT doing something before she has a chance to. I find that this is very effective for making her chase you. You take away her ammo.

This is an effective way to do that.

QUESTION: Is the fact that I am trying to convey to her that I rarely or don't anymore, sleep with girls on the first date a sign that I'm a pussy? It is actually how I feel, and I feel like conveying that to the girl is a good thing because it shows that I'm likely not diseased, etc, and that I am not just here for the sex. I worry now that although I'm being the man I want to be and telling her what I expect...that I'm doing it in a way that is a wicked DLV.

I appreciate the advice; but, I actually don't want to sleep with a girl most of the time on the first date if I like her. If it's just for sex...cool. But my problem is dealing with this when I actually like the girl. I personally find that I like her a bit less the day after; whereas, I can keep the attraction (which I am feeling) high if I postpone it at least a day so as to brew in attraction for a day before it goes away after delivering my surprise to her labia.

you misread my post. I dont think you got the point

saying "we arnt going to have sex... dont get any ideas... blah blah" is a good way to build attraction i agree... ur taking away her ammo... but the ultimate goal of saying/doing those routines is to then FUCK her! if you dont want sex on the first date why are you going SEXUAL? Lol. Just take her out... dont be sexual... and then sex wont happen.... and if the date goes well enough and you vibe she will want to hang out with you again. When i was an AFC I did this ALL the time. Not on purpose obviously... i wanted sex.... i just didnt know how to escalate to it. So we would hang out... and hang out... and then they would flake me because i wasnt being a MAN and properly escalating things to the next level. That was on me.

girls normally wont totally give up on you after the first date if you dont go sexual at all. Some may... but its a rarity. So if you want to delay sex... just DONT go SEXUAL. And when you feel its right for you.... be a MAN and pull the trigger.

Hope that helps.
Gl,
Duke

Don't talk about "what you regularly do" to girls. This is a major turnoff! Make her feel special. Don't talk about policies and stuff like that. Just live with her in the moment. Keep you policies and strategies to yourself or you will creep her out.

It's not a sign that you are a pussy as long as you show you want to get sexual, even get a little sexual, and then brake it off because you want it to be perfect, because you have to get up early, etc. If you don't do it this way, then yes, it can be a wicked DLV like we concluded in the first posts.

Don't show them how you feel. Women are usually pretty narcissistic and don't care about how you feel. Show that your a man and she deserved your fuck. It's just not the right time. This will push her away and coming back to beg for more. Make her work for it! It's like sales. You always sell the most if you are willing to offer the customer a free trial or a sample.

Good luck!

Bucc

_________________
I could not tread these perilous paths in safety, if I did not keep a saving sense of humor. -Admiral Horatio Nelson