Ok so this is my first post. As an aspiring PUA I have found this site, amongst others, very helpful in improving my game and getting over sticking points, even though this often involves sifting through hundreds of posts from members who aren't, and never will be successful with women in order to find the real gems.

However, my main issue at the moment is about this obsession with the notion of avoiding hoops at all costs in order to maintain a higher value. I have been guilty in the past of taking everything on these forums to be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and as a result, when i read about frame control and hoops I immediately took it upon myself to go out into the field and test this new found knowledge.

The basic principle is that when a girl asks a question which requires you to qualify yourself or lays down any other type of hoop, she is trying to create a frame whereby she has the higher value and that she is the prize that you are trying to chase. Common theory states that by answering her qualification question you are buying into her frame and whether you answer right or wrong you still lose. You should destroy her frame and re-frame the situation to give yourself the higher value.

EXAMPLE QUALIFICATION QUESTIONS AND "CORRECT ANSWERS"

"Where do you work?"
-I'm a professional bank robber (move into bank heist opener)

"How old are you?"
-I don't know, it changes every year, I find it difficult to keep track

Which sometimes results in...

"Why don't you answer my questions directly?"
-I haven't answered your questions directly all night, and you were cool with it, stop testing me. Plus I like to keep it a mystery.

And the one and famous...

"Do you do this to all the girls?"
-Yes, but you're the only one who's falling for it so far (smiling)

On the face of it, these type of answers seem brilliant. You've destroyed her frame and established yourself as the prize. There's just one problem. You have shown no value. I'm not talking about this illusion of value we think we have when we give a witty response and set up a frame where she is the one chasing you. I'm talking about genuine alpha male value. Don't get me wrong, these lines are great for setting up the chase, but unless we show genuine value at some point in the set, this chase will eventually run out of steam.

For a long while this was my sticking point. I was answering every question in the manner shown above, i would start an initial chase and just kept plowing until the whole thing died a slow and painful death. But then I realised. Girls ask questions because they're interested in you. There is an initial spark and she WANTS to feel more attracted to you and she WANTS to build a connection. If a girl is attracted to you she's not trying to trick you or catch you out by setting these hoops. Being cocky and funny simply raises her buying temperature, it does not increase her overall attraction.

If she asks if you what your hobbies are tell her you play football. If she asks if you play an instrument, tell her you play the piano or the guitar. Tell her you play Spanish love songs. Show some value. Girls sleep with high value men, they don't fuck losers.

Fucking awesome post

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When you realize that rejection doesn`t mean shit you`ll try to find a way how to kick your own ass for being an idiot.

Fucking epic sir...i would hae played it out differently, but you made it too funny with your answers, and then the ending answer would just crush her lol. Big props to you bro

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Hey look at that!
What?
That! You dont see it?
No not really....
Oh come on theres nothing i just wanted to talk to you. Whats your name?

I half agree. Girls don't ask these questions with the conscience goal of setting hoops and trying to get you to qualify, but this happen unintentionally. I try to avoid jumping through these hoops but you are correct you need to demonstrate value. So do both. I like to start by dodge a hoop and then pushing the subject forward. Your responses are hilarious, but if the conversation dies after your witty/funny remark or changes subject there is nothing there. Let me give an example, this is my fav:

HB: "What do you do for work?"
ME: "I am a professional lier". Give a sec for laughs or quick response then push on. "Who do you think lies more, men or women?" She responds, you disagree and BS for a min. "Are you a good lier?"
HB: Answers question
ME: I bet your the honest type, I bet you could lie to me if you wanted to". Challenge her to Styles 5 lie game and loser buys winner a drink. When your at the bar enjoying the tasty beverage she just bought you tell her about your real job.

I like your one on age after that ask her how old she is. Maybe she will doge your hoop "How old do you think I am?" then reply "Do you want me to guess high or low?" Then try to work the converstion for a minutea about age. If your older (especially if only a year or two. Tell her about how life was when you where her age. If shes older (careful, especially if she is alot older) ask her what to expect in the next few years. Dosent really matter, but avoid hoops to some extent, dont be obnoxious about it. And keep the convo going. What do you think? Did you leave them with the responses you showed us or did you continue on subject and have issues?

You're conclusions are correct but come on! Nobody, is actually going to try to play games 100% of the time and reframe 100% of the questions a girl asks. I've never done that myself. Most questions are sincere indicators of interest rather than shit tests as you.

Also, you're wrong about women sleeping with losers. Women sleep with losers all the time. Not all losers, just certain varieties of losers (charming thugs, charming ex cons, bohemian artsy types, etc). In fact, those types of losers get more poon that the high value men in american society.

Well witten post, props to you splash!

I can relate with a lot of what you´re saying.

Take care!

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Common sense, moral and humility will get you anywhere.

Stop being so gamey, man. Just have a real conversation with chicks.

So true, it is so easy to take everything written about game to be fact but in truth it should all be taken with a grain of salt.

Edgar Degas said on painting "Painting is easiest when you know nothing, but most difficult when you know everything"


I find myself using what I know of game as much as I can, but when I was 17 I was fairly decent with girls, and knew nothing about game. I just talked and flirted and girls liked me because

a.) I was sexual
b.) I wasn't sexual all the time.

I would be cheeky and then go into an hour long debate about religion or some other topic. Now I find myself worrying about coming off as submissive or dominant and demonstrating higher value and being the prize when I could easily just talk about whatever.



I think game can only get you so far, and this is why there is such a big interest in naturalism nowadays.


But you make a brilliant post none-the-less

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Respect the cock.

That's exactly... When I was an AFC, and started learning the game, I took it word by word without any success. And then when I hooked up with my first gf, the next day I was thinking "Finally...all the hard work payed off" But then as I was trying to remember what we said and how I played it, it was very hard. What caught her is not my lines, and not me reframing everything she told me. It was that I was just there in the moment and enjoying myself. We talked about many things, casual things, emotional things, funny stories, and by these we could connect. You don't connect emotionally with a girl by destroying everything she says; that's just stupid.

So everyone remember this which is often forgotten in this community. Attraction may be sparked if you show value by not falling for her tricks...but to maintain it, you have to create actual connection. If you disregard everything she says and asks, that just won't work.

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What I like in life is nothing more but living it.