Hey bros. Need help. Can't get beyond the first date. I'm a "nice guy." I'm in my 40s, but in shape, nice hair, and decent looking. I'm a professional, so have value that way, but socially I'm LAME. Really LAME. Just divorced, few friends, no wing, etc. So I get the first the dates, I get the IOIs, but I don't create any sexual tension (I try!), or sense of scarcity (I try!), or sense that I'm a cool guy to hang with (I need to try even harder!). I'm mildly amusing but need material to be funnier, and dial up the "buying temperature". I mean, fuck!, some of these chicks are on the internet the next day looking for a different date! So my looks/status get me in, and then no heat from there. Its killing my confidence (which was never very high).

I'm a little confused... and yet I know exactly what's wrong.
The internet for dates? C'mon man... I would be afraid that I was hitting on a dude rather than a girl. Who one is over the internet is completely different than who they are in real life, if they tend to be self conscious.

I don't get it... your posting field reports of F-closes, and yet call yourself lame... What are you looking for? "Just divorced" = you want sex and companionship = wish you were still married but not to your ex-wife?

Are you flashing your cash a bit for these girls to get these IOIs you mention?

Are you mentioning what you do for work to try and generate attraction? *If you have a good job, don't mention it unless they ask, and even then don't go overboard.*

Are you coming across try-hard?

If you want to get cocky-funnier, my vote is to become one with AdultSwim on Cartoon Network.

I can't help you more with out getting to know YOU better. Can you tell me what you have done to formulate a game for yourself around women aside from reading these posts? It's a place to start.

Hey I am also an older guy just starting out and last nite I went to the club with my boys for guys nite out, try this it is mostly what I do when I go out I sarge like crazy and go into 3 sec, kino, neg push pull number close or get them to come along for the nite sometimes I get shut down but so far I have not gotten a hard no! The key mostly for me since I am starting out is to just have fun with it, oh the key is to get out there you need to hit up some clubs, bars, etc trust me I am a 31 year old 5ft 10 in guy who weights 225 and and am not much to look at but I get out there and sarge my ass off I am also just starting out and sometimes find myself doing some small things that get me shut down but it dosent matter what matters is that for a newbie at this I am doing it and having fun with it. Trust me its work in progress but unless you don't work at it you will never become the master at it!

Lefty....Yes the internet for dates....Man I am just starting out here. I was a nerd when I got married 20 years ago. I'm much more comfortable and chatty now, but I'm NEW to the game (hence 'neogamer'). Like Style, I went through high and college without any female action. Style actually managed to tour with Motley Crue and not get laid, which is astounding.

Anyway, I did F-close a net date, but that was just luck. She was ready. I don't have game. I run out of material. I'm not amusing enough. And, like I said, I don't know how to turn up the sexual tension in a woman who views me neutrally initially. I need some good negs too.

I basically keep chatting away saying random shit, kind of directionless....I definitely TALK TOO MUCH....I suppose I need to change venues....or end the date and reload.

I don't flash cash.

What am I looking for? Easy....Multiple dating relationships with sex and booty calls....Nothing intense.....not now....

I would work on your self confidence. Being older is an asset use your mind and experience. If you thing your boring trust me women will thing your boring, too.

Well, it seems like your intentions for success are in the right place, I would just say practice makes perfect and repetition makes permanent.

1. Read books and posts to formulate a game plan.
2. Do things that take you out of your comfort zone, or you'll limit your success.
3. I was serious about AdultSwim for Cocky-funny humor... it kind of grows on you.
4. Take calculated risks, in other words don't get ahead of your skis. There is a difference between falling off a horse and getting back up when its the horse's fault and something completely different when its your fault you fell off the horse in the first place because you didn't know what you were doing.

Keep it up man your on the right track.

Hey Neo
I agree with Zachary...it sounds like you need some serious confidence boosting and that will work in ways you never realised once you have it.
I'm a 31 year old woman, I have also done internet dating here in the UK a while ago, and met older guys (a few divorced like you) who didn't want anything serious but still wanted to have a nice time (you know what I mean).

Nothing wrong with that...but the ones it is fun to be with are not sitting chatting about how lonely or unhappy they are post divorce (I'm not saying you do that but just explaining), they are confident, self assured, mature and make sure you feel good.

If you're not feeling that confident...something someone told me that I think can really work...fake it until it is true.

By that I mean, act as though you are, act it, just blag your way through (I think most people do that anyway!) and then you'll start to feel it for real as things go your way.

You don't need to flash your cash, just be nice, not needy, not too keen to jump into bed, you can show you may want to, make the girl feel attractive...but also be patient and show some restraint.

I don't think there's anything wrong with internet dating for this kind of thing, I would actually say it is more rubbish if you want to meet someone for something more serious because of all the games people play and amount of options there are coming at you everyday (can't trust someone will not be lining up other dates!).

Take her somewhere fun, not just a meal...maybe a race track or somewhere you can have fun together. I kinda like doing touristy London stuff on dates, like the open top tour buses (I've lived in London all my life but they are fun and actually can be romantic!), or going on the London Eye, that kind of thing, there's something to do/look at and brings up stuff to chat about without it being so intense as going for a drink or meal.

If you do only want flings and physical intimacy without it getting serious, just try to be clear about that so a girl doesn't get too into you and therefore, hassle you! One guy I met said 'I think you're wonderful, but I just got divorced and really can't handle anythign serious right now with anyone, I hope that is OK with you, but if not, I understand...I just can't promise you anything more than this.'

And with that information...I was fine, not upset (bit disappointed but bounced back) and could make my choice whether or not I kept seeing him (which I did!) knowing it would not go anywhere towards a serious relationship, but once I knew the score, I could relax and enjoy it for what it was.
Hope this helps a bit

Red x

Lefty--thanks man. You're right. After my posts yesterday, I realized the problem was simply a need to learn and practice. I have a bad habit of DLV'ing myself instead of cocky-funny. My old love of Woody Allen movies. Must change that ASAP! After all...I AM THE PRIZE.

Confidence is key, and for me it obviously doesn't come naturally with women, but I can fake it for a while, and let the successes add to it. Confidence is also built on a foundation of competence, which I am working on. Having a game plan, routines, material ready to go.

Red--

Thank you for the thoughtful response. Always terrific to hear a LADIES point of view, although, our PUA training hinges upon our controlling the frame. You hit on a few mistakes I've made in my journey from lonely divorced guy to PUA.

One, being needy. Sure, most of the time I'm amusing and all that, but I let on that A) after work I often have nothing to do B) I'm lonely C) I'm at their disposal. Heck, if DLVing yourself worked, I wouldn't be here! It doesn't work. Crash and Burn.

So anything relating to A, B, or C is out.

I'm not just after sex. Although I am a frisky rascal. I like to laugh, go out, have fun. That's the goal for me, to be able to generate a steady stream of dates, leading to a small harem of steady dating partners, and be open about it.

Hey Neo
No problem at all. Am happy to help if I can in any small way.

It made me smile when you said 'frisky rascal' lol...that sounded very posh British!

Well...many men AND women are like that, no shame in it, we all have urges, needs, desires. Anyone who didn't have them, I would worry about more lol.

I've said before on here it's all about execution....how you go about it.
But I totally hear what you're saying, it sounds like you want to have dating fun but also maybe even build up your social network, since your divorce, you mentioned you're free alot and not got lots of friends.

So maybe don't just focus on girl stuff but also meeting people in general and doing more with your evenings and weekends, stuff that you enjoy, have always wanted to do but not ever got around to or had time to. The world is your oyster and you have more freedom now to do what you want...enjoy it!

The girls issue is a seperate thing and can of course be a nice extra to think about too and work on. I think that is how it should be, that your life is as complete as you can make it on your own, and anyone else who comes into it is an added bonus.

Things you do for yourself alone will help make you more confident anyway, don't just become more confident to get girls...does that make sense?

They're all out there waiting for a lovely confident (which may take time but you will get it), intelligent, funny man to spend a few dates with
x

Okay this is very simple to solve...

He who is controlling the conversation is winning the game!

Make her guess for things before you tell her example

Girl: So what kind of music are you into?
You: Guess
Girl: I don't know um.... hip hop
you: close that's one of my favorites but i love... (whatever)

if she guesses right the first time... say "wow you're good at this game" and turn around and ask her another question... listen for key words and think of your next question...

Girl: my favorite food is Italian actually...
you: really what dish?

when she tells you the dish... say... stop teasing me... I'm getting hungry... I might just bite you but you look like you'd bite back...

and ask more questions... if you have no routines... no way out... the best way to not seem boring is to ask more questions...

make comments about what she says... you can do it!!!

learn routines... and you'll get the hang of it!!

I almost forgot... another way to appear interesting without being interesting... is to ask her... "are you sure you want to know?" after a few questions and it will build an excitement in her to want to know more and dig more...

Girl: so what do you do for a living?
Me: are you sure you want to know?
Girl: oh oh... what is it?
me: Come close and I'll tell you... I'm a professional ____________

Thanks...just a way to liven up getting to know each other. Kind of a push pull sort of rhythm.

I may being improving my overall game by just avoiding DLVing myself. The inner alpha is peeking out. I walk a little taller, talk a little slower, try to smile with confidence, and avoid any mention of my "needs" etc....

Yesterday I ran into two HB 8s thru work, both married, and got some IOIs, which was confidence building--there i simply demonstrated value thru work. While making good eye contact, which is a skill i learned.

A second date next week appears a lock with someone i actually LIKE! I was reserved our first date, and didn't pick up any IOIs until the end. Since then, we've been IMing (we're both too tired to talk), and I've been trying some game on her--actually good practice, you type the words and wait for the response without being right there....

She's seems neg-proof, a sharp confident woman, but I'm trying to build sexual tension....it's like, I'm not going to waste my time. I'm going to be open about what I want (sex), as part of the dating package....I want her to know that if she's going to try to dangle sex out there like some carrot date after date that I'll be long gone.

I've just thrown out topics like making out, having sex, sexual frequency, traveling together, etc, all out there to plant in her mind the idea that life with me would be fun, interesting, and sexual....she was interested in me and attracted to me at first (I learned), but I've learned the hard way that that doesn't mean anything....you have to keep building up your value, her interest, and her desire such that she can't wait to talk to you or see you again....

I may have succeeded here using humor, yes some honesty, playfulness....but, I should have (in retrospect) thrown in a few negs--I'll do that next time. Just for fun I threw in a few negs to a bitchy but elusive HB8 I've been chatting occasionally with over the months and she responded! I was shocked! I was shocked it was so easy to get her into the frame of proving herself to me--

I also sent out a wickedly neg laden email to some HB 7-8 whose profile was just obnoxious and full of negs to potential suiters--got a response with mild IOIs.....

Do NOT underestimate the power of the NEG! Even where I thought it wouldnt work with older gals....it brings out their insecurities and they become off balance....

I'm neging the hell out of this chick online... I asked her to go out tonight and just hang out with me... and she says

HB:how do i know i can trust you i barely even know you, i just met you for about 5 minutes and now you want to go and hang out?
ME: well you were comfortable talking smack in person, even comfortable getting in the car... hell you were even comfortable giving me your number so I think its you I can't trust... maybe hanging out is not such a good idea after all cause you might get some ideas and i won't be able to get you off me...
HB:you're just saying that cause you know if i get on you, you won't want me to get off
Me: maybe other men may not want you to get off but i don't know what you're working with...
HB: *playing innocent girl* are you kidding me? most men throw me off and say what the heck are you doing???
Me: I thought boricuas (Puerto Rican's) could put it down and drop it like its hot are you saying that they can't?
HB:Maybe most Boricuas but I'm your avarage boricua times 3
Me: Oh... so you're that bad huh?
HB: you don't know how bad I am Papi... you'll see tonight...

I got her to say she'll go out after all!! lol

Good work! I'm depressed tonight. It's Labor Day here in the states. I went to a movie alone. My kids are back with my X for the week. I have one live prospect who I might see tomorrow, depending on her schedule, and one online HB who I thought I was going to see who flaked out tonight.

I'm working on the alpha male thing. I've been going out and just practicing holding eye contact with attractive women. It seems to work. I saw one in the parking lot of a store but wasn't prepared to approach. I'm not afraid of getting shot down, I've seen too much shit in my life for that.

I think whats holding me back is inexperience and a lack of material. I have to prepare some routines etc and have them ready to go. Especially since I'd like to pick up a few of the local cashiers and women during daylight. Somehow, that's less intimidating for me than moving into the club scene. Although really, if you hit the clubs late enough, most people are kind of smashed and don't give a shit anyway.

So last year was the year of my divorce, and, one year later, with the help of places like this and books and learning the game, I hope at least to have some fun with this. I'll keep you posted.