Been reading up on a few here, and while I understand the whole game behind them, I wonder if they aren't a bit, well,... counterconstructive?

Normally when I am gaming a girl I like, I will build so much rapport and attraction with her, that she *wants* to kiss me at the end. All I have to do is give her a good excuse, -and ok I can see how a lot of these kiss games are perfect for that.

But, it seems that a lot of guys are using these on girls they've kinda met, maybe been talking to them for a half an hour or so, and they "steal" a kiss. This seems like a bad thing to me, like it would give the girl second thoughts later on, going too fast and all that...

Or does it just build a lot of value that you can get a girl to do this even tho she is nearly consciously thinking about stopping it? I hear it often enough, "Oh my god I cant believe you got me to do that, *laughs and kisses me again*" or "How is it possible you always get your way with me?," but this is usually later in the game for me.

So where do you guys think the line is? Do you save kiss close games for later in the game, or do you use them as early pickup tricks? Obviously it will probably depend on the girl as well, still I am just curious.

Specifically, would you use one on a HB who you just met and dont have time to game for hours on end? Like you are leaving the club with your friends or whatever but she is into you?

i'd give her a quick kiss, maybe even on the cheek. as a taster, leaving her wanting more, but not feel like shes gone too far too fast

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AA? : In life, it's the man who is willing to die, who always wins.

i used to use these games when i was new and very unsure... so whenever i thought it was on i'd run mystery's "do you want to kiss me" thing.. whether it was 30 mins in or 3 days in.

however, with experience you become able to just pick up whether its on or not, so you just feel the vibe and go for it because you want it and because you can.

i recently got a newsletter from gambler's PUAtraining that really helped me a lot last night. pm me if anyone wants it (not sure whether i'm allowed to post it here)

and for the last question... depends. i normally dont game girls just before i have to leave because it's kinda pointless but if i do find myself in that situation then i'm more likely to just go for a lingering peck and number close after that than to just leave it after all my hard work.

dude be a man

two steps forward, one step back. smart thinking. i say it depends on the situation of the kiss, as well as if its a long tongue kiss or a quick peck. a peck is literally a joke, most anyone will do that within 30 min (in my experience), but a long kiss does take more work. also if your at a party with lots of noise you can usually move faster than say.... if you were in a coffee house or something.

at least thats what i think

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Who is the 5th of the Final Five?