Sorry this turned out longer than expected, but do me a favor, read through it, I documented everything well. I think you will enjoy the read at least. I had fun this passed week, even though I crashed and burned. See if you can help out!


Ok I had 2 girls this week, both I got out empty handed. Help me spot the issue.

Girl 1-

Known her for a while, met her a few months a while ago. I knew I was going in for some play or nothing. She doesn't know my friends, doesn't have any common connections, so this would be a great practice run to see how far I can get; and if I screw up it doesn't hurt my friendships.

Start off talking on gmail, seeing what each other is doing. I get her plans, I tell her I have a few things to do and don't know if I will come out. But I end up driving to wherever the place is. Turns out she bar hopping with some sort of meetup group. I join in, shes with some friends, which I try to spark some convos with. They seem pretty boring. We get into bar 2/3 of the night, some sort of exclusive bar. Cool. Its packed we stand at the bar. I try to spark some more convos. She's preoccupied with some other people. I feel like a tool so I go to the otherside of the bar where I scope out this hottie. Start talking to some random girls ect.

And then we move to bar 3/3.

Super exclusive place, model chicks everywhere. Wow. Looks like the playboy grotto. I take a seat at table, while the girls grab drinks at the bar. I don't, I'm driving. Girls are taking pictures with themselves and bullshiting around. She sits down on my lap starts talking taking pictures. Leaves for more bullshitting with the girls. I feel like a tool again, so I start talking to this italian playboy with 4 chicks at his table. Ends up being a pretty cool dude, I find out this chick is into me, thats at his table. I get her number while my party of 4 girls goes to the bar again.

Girls come back, they want to go to some other place, I told them I drove, and then they decide to go home. I tell girl 1 I can take her home. She says lets go. On the walk to the car, I get in some light kino, some hand holding, some arm in arm, ect. We got hungry, we get some pizza, girl 1 is zoning, lack of convo, lack of energy. We get to my car, start driving off, I try to get some excitement going, start bumping tune, getting a party started.

Mid way through the ride, she asks, you want to stay over? I says yea, maybe. In might head I'm thinking, maybe its a good night if I work it right. Ride goes on, more picture taking, light kino, tunes, but it still feels slugish (right term?)

We get to the spot, she say wish we had more liqour, I scower the back of my car, find some jonny walker. Get into her spot, I get comfortable on the couch, she cuts up some watermelon, we take some shots. I start trying to get in close, showing some music on the comp, some bullshiting. Then we get into what kind of girl you like convo, I lead it to the I like ones that kiss well, can you kiss well...ect you know where this goes.

This is where I get shut down. No I don't do that blah blah. I dont even remeber what she said after that. She was telling me some heartfelt stuff. I stopped listening. Shes still babbling, I'm finishing up watermelon. Tell her I'm out of here, I'm not staying. But wait! Its late, I have this couch, why don't you stay!? She says. Fuck yo couch. I leave

Girl 2- 2 days later

I was doing community service with a friend at a local town center, and I saw my friend who is a girl with her girl freind. I wave to her she comes by. We bs for 5 minutes and I never have met her gf. So I introduce myself, me and my friend are haveing a good time laughing and drinking, and the girls are seeing how much fun, just people watching and drinking beer. I invite Girl 2 to come out to some bars that night and get her number, shes from cali and here for a week. I think great, a chance to game without consequences.

The day goes on, I get in contact with girl 2 and she ends up being busy. Coincedently, I go out with girl 1. We try again the next day but things don't fall in line. I try to meet up and it ends up being a pain in the ass, so I decide its a write off.

Ends up that day is my friend's bday (one I was doing community service with), and they are at the bar 5 minutes from my house. She text me, I put on my best. And head off. I meet up. Buy my friend some bday drinks. Random people slide by, I say hi, I get a bunch of social proof. People assume we are together. Night goes on, we hit it off, similar tastes, she likes everything I do. ( I have a feeling I was getting played, or maybe she does that to every guy)

Night goes on, I leave a bit early and we agree to meet sometime later during the week.

I Hit her up tell her I been meaning to go to this bar, she agrees. I get off work early. Hit her up, wait for a reply. No answer till too late. I was washing a dog. wtf? Anyways cool, I use the time to check out the local bars and places to take girls.

Day later, she hits me up, tells me to come out to some bar, I tell her I have people comming over. I might slide by, she says ok maybe next time. I reply I will try to make it out. I end up making it out. It some pitiful bar, with a mutual friend that is meeting up with coworkers. My other friend I came with goes to some other bar. I snatch her up take her aside, tell her this place sucks and says lets go to the other bar, she agrees. We go to the other bar, its a gay bar. Fuck. I tell her lets get out of here, go to my place. Agrees and we go.

I try get some kino in, some playing around. Joking and music. We get to my place, everyone is leaving, I act dissapointed. I pour up shots and drinks. We talk and bs. Check out my motorcycle. Then I tell her I got this track ( I dj) I found, since shes into the same music shes going to love it. Get her into my room. Tell her to sit down, she sits down on my lap, we start jamming. Track ends, I put on another one, we start grind dancing in my room. Start kissing on the neck, its getting real sexy. I go in for a kiss, and I get denied.

Super AFC me comes out and asks if I can get a kiss, I get shut down hard. She says "you don't ask for kisses." It gets a bit ackward. I put another track on, she leaves. Night goes on, me her and my friend do some more talking and bs. I walk her to her car and she drives home way late at night.


What patterns are you seeing?
What am I doing wrong?
Not enough kino?
Not enough attraction?
End game sucks?

no help, huh?

Loved that part.

Yeah I think it's a kino issue. These girls are comfortable changing locations with you, they ask to meet up, so it seems like you're doing fine in that sense. You're starting to kino as you leave though (or at least that's how it seemed) and that is the worst possible time. She hasn't felt you touch her at all, and now that things are winding down she's definitely going to notice the change. Kino is automatic, and should happen starting the second you meet someone. Attraction may be an issue but its hard to tell. This next week go out to bars and pick up girls using tons of kino. If they get creeped out by how much you touch them, that's a good thing, it shows you where your limits are with girls that won't affect your social life.

Its true, maybe kino is inorder, I didn't have any opportunities to kino at entry. Maybe a slight hug and thats about it. I usually go dance with chicks to get some major kino in, and this time I didn't have any opportunities for that.


How do I get kinoing off the bat?

Also, can you talk more about attraction? Isn't kino part of attraction? Or am I missing something?

Kino isn't about finding opportunities to touch a girl, it's about making it normal to touch her, then the opportunities create themselves. Anytime the two of you are standing and free to move a little, kino possibilities are everywhere. You need to put your arm around her shoulder casually and non-sexually (so not like you're sitting in a movie kind of way). It can help to comment on some person or object as you do it, so you put your arm around her, get close, then point away at something and comment, so you aren't looking at her and the closeness is less obvious. Kino comes with practice.

Vin DiCarlo says that there are 4 emotions a girl has to feel through a full length sexual encounter. Intrigue, Arousal, Comfort, and Devotion. He claims in his Pandora's Box system that different girls need different ones to at various stages. Rather than go into that, the two that seem to be most important in attraction stages are intrigue and arousal. You need to both make her wonder "Who is this guy? Is he into me?" (best done by talking much more about her than yourself) and also be aroused (more intimate touching, sincere compliments).

Hope this helped!