So I've been talking to this girl for about a month. She's a waitress at this bar I go to once a week. We flirt and argue and have a blast every time. Trust me it's not just in my head. We were real into eachother.

But she's had a boyfriend for much of the time. Recently she told me that her relationship isn't much of one.

So I go in the other night. And we're flirting, sitting at the bar together, flirting harder than we ever had. Touching eachother etc. Finally when most of the people leave, we're sitting there together talking, and she tells me that she's single now. I pretend not to believe her, then give her a hard time for losing another one, then finally I'm "convinced" she was trying really hard to convince me how single she was.

So as soon as I'm convinced I pull out my phone and say: "put your number in there so we can continue this argument later"

She just stares at my phone. doesn't take it. Then says "just put my number in your phone huh?!" like sort of angrily. We had been having a fake argument before and i think she was still in that mode.

Then she turns to everyone at the end of the bar - all the regulars and bartenders and others who know me and says; "chrissy side just told me to put my number in his phone" like she was upset how assertive or "bossy" i sounded.

Have you ever had a girl announce that you just asked her out?!

So everyone looks at me feels awkward, then looks down at their drinks. She keeps sitting by me, not saying anything. I mumble something about her losing her one chance but i was too confused to really know what to say.

finally i finish my drink, tell everyone goodbye, and leave, very confused.

WHAT THE HELL DID I DO WRONG?!?!

Oh god, that is a messed up situation.

I will tell you this much, you didn't do anything wrong. Maybe she was still in character when she said that, but to me it seems more like she's got major issues.

To scream it out like that in a whole restaurant is one thing, if she gives you the number. If she screams it out and doesn't give you the number it's as if she's trying to publicly humiliate and say " look at this guy, he wants to have my number, what a fucker".

Obviously, she has deep issues with her relationship and/or mental state. Get away from her as fast as you can.

The fact that you asked her to give you your number so you could continue the argument is genious and you were still in context. So in my opinion, you did good.

Sometimes it'S not you, it's them...seriously.

Maybe someone has another opinion.

no dude...i agree with theking01. Get away from her and move on.

I had a similar situation a couple years ago but it wasn't in a public place. Everything was great till I asked for her # and she calls over her friend who was a couple feet away talking to someone and says "THIS guy wants my phone #" and they both started laughing afterwards with a tone that they were WAY out of my league. Now she was drunk so I blew it off but i wouldnt want anything to with a girl like that

shrug it off, you did nothing wrong to warrant that what she did to you. it is VERY unlikely that maybe she was doing it for a laugh (depending on her personality) but the fact that afterwards she didn't say sorry or give you her number kind of shows that she may not be all there.

Hmm I'm in agreement with the other's that obviosly she's got some sort of issue and your lucky it didn't go any further. Though I think I would have handled the finish a little different, but obviosly I'm looking at it without the hit to my personal boundry.

I will say this, that is a serious shit test!!

My handling probably would have gone a little different. My end game probably would have consisted more like this:

She pulls the bar stunt

I'd look at her one eyebrow raised a bit of a what the hell you on about? From experience she would be more inclined to explain what the hell she's on about.

But remember it doesn't matter what she thinks about you. Your a PUA and you've got options when you want. Next thing to remember especially when those kinds of issue occurs it's means nothing to you, never take it personally it's her loss ( though don't go saying " Oh well your loss whatever"). NEVER show that she has got under your skin never let them breach your personal boundry.

_________________
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. -Soren Kierkegaard
A woman brought you into this world, so you have no right to disrespect one - Tupac

Purely from a "social graces" point of view, that was extremely rude and cold hearted, any decent person would know that.

But if I was to get inside her head from what you just told me - I'd say without a doubt, she was expecting more. She was expecting you guys to make out in the bar or for you to invite her to your place for DVDs (even in a joking way). When you think about everything that has happened between you, and especially that night when you'd stayed late at the bar together, getting her number to call her later seems a bit lame when she was expecting to have some company tonight after her break up.

However her reaction was a bit extreme - and yet, if I was to get in her head, I'd say she's super emotional from her break up - and possiblly maybe a little messed up too - but I personally wouldn't see it as a sign to run screaming just yet.

Fact remains though - that was extremely rude, and unforgivable. This is the perfect situation for a freeze out - you've had lots of fun recently (as opposed to things tapering off slowly) and your absence or pointedly avoiding eye contact with her will be a shock and she'll soon be thinking about how much fun you were and what she did to be rejected to suddenly.

She will call you back - and honestly, I wouldn't be fussed about if she does or not. If it takes her a year to contact you, so be it.

In fact you'd lose respect with her if you tried to make amends right now - you did nothing wrong, and she will realise that, and you'd then seem desperate for uniting something as rude as this.

The only way you'd contact her first is if you were absolutely confident you knew just what to do and were able to approach her and say some thIngs that would show that you're positive, alpha, she was wrong, you're going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now... But no one can give you instructions for that, it is so important it'd have to come from within, it would be something pretty unusual. My advice personally - freeze her out and move on - let her do the work if she wants the fun back.

Ok, so, you ogtta think, you have been flirting with said waitress for weeks, right? She works with all the people and regulars in the bar, and I can gaurantee you have been the topic of one or two conversations with her co-workers. Your mutal attraction is obvious to everyone in the room on a regular basis. The behind closed doors convos are something to the effect of "blah blah blah I have a BF, can't be sleeping with flirty regular customer guy, even tho I dig him a bit" So your rapport builds into something WELL PAST THE "can I have your number?" stage in a context that leaves no actual option to do anything other than build rapport. When the time comes, and youre sitting on a mass of attraction, you pull the question you should have been pulling at the end of the first conversation... YA, I would shit test the hell out of you, In my opinion, you should have said something to the affect of "good, no boyfriend means we can stop with all this fluffy restaraunt talk and do something more interesting" or "Ok, I believe you that you are single, could you be anymore subtle?" your appraoch should have been MUCH more direct. Unfortunatly, her shit test was RUDE, and in my opinion, she should be punished. When I get shit tests that are this rude, rather than meet it with my regular indifference or the standard "well, my mom thinks I am cool" I usually like to say "Wow, you're nicer than you look" and then WALK THE FUCK AWAY, she'll figure it out on her own time, just my two cents

@Insert, we agree, but I like your post better. Hope he reads all this.

Insert, very good post. Yeah, re-reading it all, it was probably way past that frame where you ask for her number. It seems that you were way beyond that, and much deeper in rapport to be making a basic and early move as asking for her number. But still, as I said, it sounded all wrong to me on her part.

UPDATE!

First off, great replies. I wish I had seen them 2 weeks ago, but I essentially followed Conker's advice and froze her out.

So a couple of days after the rejection, I went in to meet a friend as I always do. When she walked over, I just said; "Unbelievable" and then went back to talking to my friend. She laughed as she walked off.

When she came back I said: "so i'm suprised to see you working" and she said; "why wouldn't I be" "well after the way you behaved the other night I didn't figure you'd show your face in here again" She kind of chuckled and walked off.

Then she came back and sat with us. She was acting really downtrodden. This is normally a very proud girl, she's the hottest girl in the room and blah blah. I've never seen her like this.

And she says: "yea I don't remember much from that night" I say: "ask anyone at the bar, they'll remind you." She kind of smiled at this. Then the most interesting thing happened.

Throughout the conversation she asked THREE times what happened that night. Now, we all know her saying she doesn't remember is BS - she just doesn't want to acknowledge her blunder. And since she remembers, the only reason that she would ask me to repeat what happened - that I can see - is that she wanted me to ask again, or at least, start up a conversation about me getting her number again.

I didn't do it. It felt low value to bring up anything about asking for her number again.

Also, throuhgout the convo, she seemed very concerned about what I thought of her. She kept fishing. Finally, after about 30 mins of being in there, I said I had some stuff to do and left - mid convo.

What i intended to convey was: I'm not embarrassed about what happend. SHE's the one that should be embarrassed. That I was good humored about it, but I wasn't going to be easy to get back, etc.

Well for the past 2 weeks, I've been going in there on Poker night. And like Conker said, I have pretty much frozen her out. She tries ALL THE TIME to flirt with me, but I either make a small joke and go back to my other conversation or I just ignore the things she says altogether.

AND SHE HASNT GIVEN UP.

That's what's so weird to me. This girl is incredibly hot. She has tons and tons of options, but she targets me whenever I go in there, seeking any attention from me. It's a great feeling, and a strange one.

The other night she just came and stood next to me while I was at the bar. I didn't say anything to her and left.

So wouldn't yall say that I've "frozen her out" enough by now? Or punished her enough? It's starting to feel mean.

Insert, those are great points. I never even considered that "asking for the number" wasn't enough. I really wish I had had those lines in my head like: "well now that you'e single we can quick f'n around..." would have been perfect. PERFECT. But alas...

In her defense, she was pretty drunk. Also, I asked for the number in the MIDDLE of one of our fake arguments, which get really heated for fake arguments - but always alot of fun. And so I think a combination of the alcohol, the argument, the SHOCK of me asking just like that - she didn't know what to do.

She's actaully a sweet girl, and any girl who gets hit on alot has learned how to let guys down well. She wasn't "letting me down" as someone said, she was shit testing me - and apparently I deserved it.


I'd like to ask about Conker's advice:


"
The only way you'd contact her first is if you were absolutely confident you knew just what to do and were able to approach her and say some thIngs that would show that you're positive, alpha, she was wrong, you're going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now... But no one can give you instructions for that, it is so important it'd have to come from within, it would be something pretty unusual. My advice personally - freeze her out and move on - let her do the work if she wants the fun back."



He's right, this is a bizarre situation. At this point we've kind of fallen into a rut. I haven't TOTALLY frozen her out. I just act normal - kind - but I don't really flirt with her or engage her like I used to do. I like to go in there and I'd like to get along with everyone.

So by this point, she keeps trying to flirt with me. If she's talking to someone and I walk by she'll mention me really loud in her conversation so I'll hear it. She is always watching me and commenting to me on things I'm doing, etc. She's always bringing up old jokes and conversations we've had. I would say this is her attempt to "get me back". And she's not going to do this forever. In fact, I wouldn't be surpised if she stops completely next time I go in.

So would yall advice I slowly let her win me back? Conker mentioned that - given how strange this situation is - the right thing to do is going to have to come from within - there's no techniques written for this kind of sitch.


Would really appreciate any feedback.

Well everything always comes from within, the only reason you hear advice or examples of things is to get a feel for what's possible and inspire you to do something.

Yeah you were right about all those things - her not remembering was BS, if it's starting to feel mean, it probably is, and yes this won't go on forever.

When reading your story, I felt it was time to turn things around when she sat down and acted down trodden. But you drawing it out has shown that she's really used to guys attention, and she's really torn up why someone has rejected her. Only you could achieve this by feeling your way through your unique situation than follow direct step by step advice.

This altercation is a blessing in disguise; so many times in the past I've realised, a lot of things that seem like problems are actually opportunities for you to show a side of yourself that you wouldn't have been able to before, and generate even more attraction that wouldn't have otherwise happened.

So yes you should start doing things now. The main theme here is she's done something really rude, broken a lot of trust, and it's going to take some work to re-build that. At the moment, all she's trying to do is get your attention. So now you can give it to her and give her a chance. Then she will start trying to earn your respect back. The key is to reward good behaviour, by it looking like she's getting through to you a little with each statement or body language she makes. Just enough for her to know it's working.

If a girl was reading this, it may sound cruel, but respect goes for both genders. The things that trigger "respect" or "lack of respect" are hard wired into us from millions of years of evolution. Social status meant more than food because it decided how much food you got. So losing status can feel as painful as physical pain, and gaining status can feel rejuvinating. Fact is, if you do something mean to someone (intentional or not), and they come right back to you "Nah it's all good - want to hang out?" part of you inside is going to lose respect for them and see them as a little bit desperate, and nothing will stop that reaction. You will not feel it that important to get back to their SMS right away, etc. etc.

Of course that's not to say you have to be an arsehole - notice I'm saying; reward good behaviour. That's all anyone can ask.

The important thing is - she's expecting this to be difficult. Why? Because she's realised just how RUDE she was! When you have an expectation about reality, and that expectation is not met, your view on that reality changes. So if she finds she doesn't have to work for it like she expects, then she will realise she was not that rude - or that she was, but it doesn't matter as much as she thought it does. (And this is the ONE reason why sending long apologetic emails/voice mails/explanations to girls will always have the exact opposite effect you think it will.) But what she did was EXTREMELY rude, and it DOES matter. And only through both of you essentially "jumping through these hoops", will huge amounts of attraction be generated.

I'm not going to say how long you should let her try to earn your respect back for. Could be in the one night with hot makeup sex at the end, could be over several nights and then go out on a date. You have to feel your way through that. But DON'T ever let it seem like you're aware of the effect you might be having on her. You genuinely have to slowly have your respect for her earned back bit by bit through her efforts. And that shouldn't be hard when you remember how things went that night.

On a bit of a tangent - don't get caught up thinking about getting sex at the end of the night just cause I mentioned that as a possibility. It has to not matter to you. And yet, if a girl goes out on a limb to bare herself to you - physically (eg. taking clothes off) or verbally "I want to have sex with you", you have to give that the respect it deserves. If you don't, and try to act aloof at this point (taking the "playing it cool" PUA mentality too far) she will be mortified, and you will experience the most sudden, hugest disconnect of your life, and you will never get her back.

Ok, strange situation indeed, I have never actually been here, so this is my speculation, and for all I know, it could blow up in your face, but here you go...

To sum it up. Don't EVER apologize for freezing her out. Don't EVER awknowledge that you would like to ammend. In order to "THAW" out the situation, essentially start from the beginning. You've basically hit the reset button on your rapport, it is now time to start to "find" her funny and interesting all over again. If you can block out all these thread posts and your inner dialouge and look at the situation objectivly, you will be able to just naturally begin the rapport process again. Avoid mentioning said evening/falling out. It is up to you to open her, especially if she has given up on you. This will be delicate.

Might I suggest, before putting any effort on opening her, finding a female date and going to the restauraunt to enjoy yourself loudly? The waitress will be less that invisible at that point, not say a damn thing to you, and you won't care. Then, when she asks you at a later date who that girl was, you'll have a clean slate to open rapport again. It will be a good position of power to dictate a whole new context for your rapport. WHEN YOU HAVE MADE FRIENDS AGAIN, ASK HER OUT TO SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN THE RESTAURAUNT AND LET HER GIVE YOU HER NUMBER UNDER HER OWN WILL!

Good luck man!

Great posts guys thanks -

I agree about slowly rewarding her. Usually she "warms me up" during the night, but by the time I go in I'm cold again.

But here's a better question - one that occurred to me while reading the last 2 posts:

If she's really interested, and I've already done all the work, flirted, built attraction, all of that, and she knows I asked for the number - then why doesn't she just give it to me now?

In other words, doesn't the fact that she didn't give me the number indicate that she's not as interested in me as I previously thought? Maybe she just likes flirting with me at the bar but doesn't want to see me outside.

And if she is interested enough to give me the number, why won't she just do it now - considering I already asked...

I'm beginning to not see the point in gaming her AGAIN when I feel like I did a really solid job of it the first time and it didn't work.

@Insert - well bringing a date along to that location would be the exact opposite of what I think is needed here. I've been in the situation where a girl is "putting herself out there" and not given the respect it deserves, enough times to know this is an absolute guaranteed way to ensure she hates you for the rest of your life. I'm not kidding.

Think about it - she is a really high status girl, she's a hired gun, and she's used to guys attention. Not only is she behaving contrary to that nature by hanging around him and trying to impress him, but she's doing it in her place where she's a hired gun - EVERYONE CAN SEE IT. This girl is definitely starting to go out on a limb here, and this is a big deal for her. You throw this back in her face and it will be over, I'm telling you. There is a point, where to protect her emotions, a girl is going to reason with herself that - it's over, you guys weren't compatible anyway, it's your fault, etc. etc. anything so she can shut down this part of her life.

So at the bare minimum here, she should at least know it's starting to work on him.

Once again though - I am an outsider just reading his story, so I don't have all the detailed information, and I did underestimate how far it could be drawn out, as I mentioned before. It's just that, in my mind, you're talking about bringing out the super-shotgun to blast away a bitch shield of phenomenally high density, whereas I see a girl who's fallen from grace and is already in a position where if you throw her offers back in her face right now, you will lose her forever.



@chrissyside - Think about it from her perspective. She's hurt you, and your opinion of her has dropped. What if it was the other way round? Think about it "Um, hey sorry about that - here's my number? We cool?" It's like "Yeah sure, NOWWW you give it to me..."

She doesn't dare offer it to you now, till she has obviously got your respect back. Once again, you're underestimating how far you've travelled with her, and in this case it's how badly she wants her respect back. No way a hired gun would behave like this if she wasn't gutted that this person was worth their attention and for some reason is not giving it to them.

My intuition (and again, you have to decide what to do in the moment) is that the number should never come up. Partly because it's not nessecary, partly because last time you asked, something bad happened, so we won't go there again. Mostly because with your rapport it's not nessecary though. You can set a date, a place, and she will show up, no need to swap numbers. But if she is really worried she may not be able to keep that date, she will force herself to give you her number before you part ways, and she will be very embarassed to do it and she will try her best to explain that it's absolutely nessecary and try to be cool about it - but inside she's hurting and going out on a limb and you MUST respect that.

I said only you can make the right desicions in the moment and shouldn't take other's advice verbatim, and I won't go back on that, but there is also something else - when you are in the situation, you can be blinded by emotion. To me, even as an outsider reading - the idea that she's withholding her number because she doesn't want to see you, just doesn't fit anywhere within this basic overview of the story you've given me. When I read that story, I would be afraid to give the number now if I was her. That you never considered to see the lack of a number in the context of her submissive behaviour, and instead assumed it meant something bad, strongly suggests to me that you're still feeling the hurt of being rejected and are in a defensive mindset. Being in this defensive mindset, while difficult to avoid, is always going to cause you to make down-hill choices. Because girls want to see confidence, to the point that even arrogance is sometimes sexy (in the right context) this is the way we are geared - girls have evolved to shy away from someone who is making choices based on a defensive mindset, this goes right down to even your body language.

So IMO, just go ahead with slowly rewarding her (genuinely) and my intuition is that things should move forward pretty fast once she feels her respect is starting to be earned back. Never let her think the fact that she's a hired gun is going to win her any special SPAM. Treat her like a normal girl - people shouldn't be rude, but if she's making an effort to make amends, reward her for that. At the end of the day she won't care that everyone is seeing her pander herself to you, because once she gets you back, she's going to show that you were worth it by parading you around.

BTW hope you're familiar with the PUA term "hired gun", should be easily googled.

Also I would suggest that the fact you keep underestimating your progress with this girl (or any girl) means your confidence about yourself dealing with girls is somewhat lower than it should be. Just dont' try and substitute real confidence, with the fake confidence that PUA material promotes so much - it's good in the beginning, but if you're still doing that when she puts herself out there, it'll be over so fast...