Need some advice for F-close tonight



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:20 am 
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I've been seeing this girl for about 2 weeks now. Things are going pretty good and we've both decided that we're in a "relationship" now. However despite her sucking my tongue out of my mouth whenever we meet as of yet I have not been able to get her clothes off.

Every time I try to put my hands down her pants or even to fondle beneath her bra she immediately stops me. I know she's supremely horny cos, well without sounding too vulgar, I can smell her through her jeans. It is really strange because anything with clothes on goes. I can completely feel her up without any resistance over he clothes as long as I'm not on bare skin ...

Any help on how to get past this?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:23 am 
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Good question!

Three points:

1. Play objection game (Vin DiCarlo)
2. Get her horny
3. Use LMR tactics.

1. Objection game is basically the theory that all girls want to be and will be seduced if you just take care of their natural objections such as ASD. Here are the main objections (in my opinion):

-ASD (anti-slut defense, the girl feels like a slut)
-Self-consciousness
-Managing expectations (possible fear of buyer's remorse)
-Plausible deniability
-Discretion
-Trust

For ASD, you have to make her feel as if sleeping with you is something SHE EARNED, something that is fun and natural. This is normally more a problem with ONS, so given your 2 week relationship I don't think it's an issue.

Self-consciousness could be a big issue here. You never know what's down there. One girl I was with was really difficult to break through to the close - I later found out when I succeeded it was because her pussy STANK (of rotten cinnamon, if you must know). So you should qualify her, tell her that her body is beautiful and tell her you don't judge by those things, that you will like her whatever happens (without being AFC and needy).

Managing expectations - she may fear if she sleeps with you that you won't care about her anymore, as if she has given her 'power' away. So you have to show her you will be there for her afterwards. Alternatively, she may even think that if she sleeps with you, you will bother her too much! Make sure you calibrate this.

Plausible deniability - when she goes back to her friends the next day, she can't tell them "Hey girls, I fucked this guy last night and I only talked to him for 5 minutes!" They will think she's a slag. She also has to be able to convince HERSELF that she is not a slag. Basically, she has to be able to say 'one thing lead to another and it just happened, BUT i don't regret it because he is a great guy'. She has to be able to backward rationalise that she slept with you not because she was horny, but because you're a great guy. So YOU should be the one leading and taking responsibility the whole night.

Discretion. No girl wants to have a guy telling all his mates how he fucked her. So convey that you keep things discrete. It's a very desirable trait.

Trust. Well duh. If a girl is going to sleep with you she has to be able to trust you on some level - after all it's a dangerous thing. Trust also incorporates cleanliness, she has to trust that you're a clean person and doesn't have a million STD's. She has to trust that you always use a condom.

2. Get her horny.

It seems you are good at this already. The main thing is to capture and lead the imagination, then + kino. Change her mood not her mind. Get her sufficiently horny and she should do anything. Make tasteful sexual references and innuendo, sexual conversation threads. Tell her what you 'would' do to her if she could handle you. Set up challenges - you don't think she's acrobatic enough for you. Play fight etc.

3. Use LMR tactics.

There are a great many techniques here, with differing levels of efficacy. I will briefly explain a few:

-Verbal agreeing, non-verbal escalation
-Freeze out
-Showing LMR yourself
-presupposition and metaframing

The first is probably the easiest and most useful. Every time the girl shows LMR, just AGREE with her, but carry on with your hands and mouth or whatever you're doing. E.g:

HB: "I don't really want to do this..."
PUA: "Yeah, you're right it's quite early" (carries on fondling breasts).

Notice that I PACE HER REALITY. If she seems uncomfortable, always repeat to her the experience that she is having, i.e. sexual action that is too early. Notice I don't specify what 'early' is; this lets her put her own interpretation on it so it's right for her.

With this technique it's important to keep ploughing. Keep trying, eventually she will accept.

FREEZING OUT - this is one of the oldest LMR techniques in the book. When you freeze out, you're not throwing a tantrum or ignoring the girl. Here's how it works:

Horny girl gives LMR => you stop everything and go brush your teeth => she wonders what the hell happened, where you went, what killed the mood and tries to win your attention back => you act indifferent, until she sexually escalates again.

The key aspect is that you kill the mood so the mood is now worse than before (awkward mood), and then act indifferent. As if the HB is asking you what's wrong and you're just like "Nothing. I'm cool. Really." But evidently you're not.

SHOWING LMR YOURSELF

-If you do this, you are basically voicing her concerns by showing her LMR. In this way it'd look dumb if she then repeats the LMR. So show the LMR FIRST, show it early, then it gives her something to work towards. Very effective and saves you a lot of hassle later. By showing LMR, you are also building trust and comfort that this is someone she can sleep with.

PRESUPPOSITION AND METAFRAMING

-Basically, throughout the night presuppose that you two are going to sleep with each other. i.e.

HB: "This is a fun night!"
PUA: "Yeah, we're gonna be exhausted in the morning!"

So you presuppose that you're sleeping around hers.

Metaframing basically means to say and do things that set the frame. The frame is the 'underlying meaning of the interaction'. The frame should be that 'you two are having fun and sleeping with each other at some point is inevitable'. So metaframing is saying and doing things to IMPLY that frame, not trying to 'convince' her to sleep with you.

Hope this helps bud, let us know how it goes =)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:29 am 
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I should have added first, logistics is a key point.

LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS. Logistics is everything. If she has work the next day she has to trust you to get out of bed early in the morning. If she is friends sleeping over in her flat then you have to isolate her somewhre else. Always take care of logistics first. Work the next day is never a valid excuse for no f-close.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:57 pm 
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Quote:
I should have added first, logistics is a key point.

LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS. Logistics is everything. If she has work the next day she has to trust you to get out of bed early in the morning. If she is friends sleeping over in her flat then you have to isolate her somewhre else. Always take care of logistics first. Work the next day is never a valid excuse for no f-close.
Thanks very much for your very detailed and informative response. A couple of reputation points for your wise words.


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