Ok guys here's the update. No good news to report, but still it's a learning experience.

We met at a bar and had a bit of a chat and a drink. It was crowded and the only place to sit was opposite each other with table in between. Kino out of the question apart from a few taps on her hand. I tried to talk about personality and relationships. I thought I could lead her to trying the cube. No luck. I found out she had been married years ago for a massive 3 weeks! I tried to probe on this as that was a big warning sign. She didn't open much about it. We talked about art, as she's the arty type. I found out she was the 'serious' arty type and most pop culture was crap to her.Not good. A narrow minded art person is just as bad if not worse than a narrow minded 'uncultured' person.

We planned to go onto another place so we left. When were walking to the place in a secluded part I just sort of swung her around to me and kissed her. She wasn't at all responsive and said something along the lines that she'd get too excited. I didn't push and just carried on as if nothing happened.

At the second venue it was another bad set up,sitting opposite and table. We talked and ate and I tried to steer the conversation to dating, relationships and sexual areas. She wasn't really responsive so I just carried on . She started moaning about what I'd written online in my profile, emails and texts. I just exaggerated her complaints a bit and thought nothing of it. Looking back on it I think I was being shit tested BIG time. I tried to talk about her computer problem and steer things to going to visit her place. No chance. Subtle talk about sex and relationships got nowhere so I decided for the hell of it to talk more directly. DO NOT DO THIS NEXT BIT. I started talking about books like Sperm Wars and Red Queen and told her some of ideas in those books. This seemed to annoy her though she seemed interested in the ideas. Annoyance is good as it's an emotion.

We finished at the second venue and I suggested we go for a walk.In another secluded part I kissed her and this time she was more responsive. We walked for a few minutes and then I kissed her again. She was very responsive with lots of tongue. I complimented her and we walked a bit more.Then she asked what I wanted to do. It thought I'd suggest we go back to her place, but never said it. maybe I should have. Before I said anything she said something like "I'm not going to invite you back to my apartment for sex". I replied that I never asked for that! We walked a bit more and then she started talking and said something that we were on a third date and I was expecting to sleep with her. I again replied that I said nothing like that. We walked further then we stopped and she said we can kiss then she we will go home. I said that she was teasing me. I should have just walked away then! I kissed her and she said to keep in touch.

5 minutes later I get a vague text.So I reply with a ?. I then get 2 more texts basically putting me in the friends zone.They were so vaguely worded I played that I didn't understand. After about 4 more texts like this I got a very clear LJBF one. I've done an email to her saying that I feel she wants more and she should acknowledge her feelings. I was tempted to really bust her balls for even suggesting the LJBF as I clearly told her when discussing relationships that friends zone for men is pure torture. I'm not expecting anything other than a strongly worded rejection. This one's dead so I'd better learn and move on.

The biggest lesson for me is to walk away sooner rather than later. I seem to be a lot more comfortable being blatantly direct. It's better to piss off a girl than bore them. I'm learning how to 'plow' better. Rejection - wtf is that?

I think you did about the best you could do and learned from the parts you couldn't win. Honestly, it sounds like you wouldn't really want much more from her with the way you describe her so I'm glad you have a good learning experience. Your moves sound like they should work with someone who's actually going to be responsive so keep it up.

Thanks Rawky,

I'll chalk this one up as a learning experience. I just got the expected negative email back.

One thing I forgot to mention which was quite funny is that I was talking to her about girls who expect men to pay for everything and I told her that I believe in sharing costs and I had enough of footing the entire bills for 'dates' in the past, many,many years ago. She said she shared costs which she did. When the waitress brought the bill in the second venue this woman paid for it all by credit card ( I gave her my share in cash ). The waitress passed the little authorisation machine for me to punch in the pin number as if she was expecting that I would be paying. I then looked at the woman and told her this was sort of proof of social expectations that men will foot the bill.

I think I should have just ended it after the first kiss, taking her to task on being unresponsive. I recall now that she mentioned something about men and women being friends. That never really sank in and I should have just countered it by saying that men an women can be friends, but only if the man is old, depressed, masochistic or gay!

Also I think I need to be more bold and outrageous in what I'm saying. If I get LJBF'd by mentioning stuff in Sperm Wars and Red Queen and getting in some kino as best as I could, then I can get away with stronger actions and comments.

Another funny bit was when I said that men like to have sex with lots of women and women want sex with lots of men but are socially conditioned to deny it. I then followed up by saying that if I were a beautiful woman I'd have 2 or 3 boyfriends for sex, half a dozen 'friends' just to pay for things and have dates where they are never going to get any sex and lots of other men as admirers. Haha I think she was speechless.

Another learning thing for me is to not expect arty, individualistic women to be any more than any other girls.