OK, this controversy is going to drive some of you guys CRAZY. There was a feminist who was in Dublin for a conference about atheism / rational skepticism. After the conference, she was drinking with other people, when at 4a she got on an elevator. The guy who got on the elevator told her he was an admirer of hers and asked if she wanted to come to his room for coffee. She said no. And that was that.

Except this woman, Rebecca Watson, then told her fellow feminists about how threatened she felt by this advance, and they freaked out on her behalf. But the shit REALLY hit the fan when a prominent atheist Richard Dawkins made fun of Watson for being so traumatized.

That's the short version. Long version here:
http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawki ... y-atheists

I'm curious to get the take of other guys on this board. My first thought was, "big deal! So you had to shoot a guy down in the elevator." But that's because I empathized with the guy, who was probably a hopeless AFC who didn't want to get shot down in front of other people.

But as I read some of the (admittedly hysterical) responses from feminists, I can see how the woman felt a measure of fear. How does she know whether he's going to force himself on her? Or drag her back to his hotel room? Is this the kind of guy who doesn't take no for an answer?

Whether you think her fears were warranted or not, I think the lesson for men is to be mindful of whether a woman is in a physically vulnerable position (i.e. alone in an elevator) when you make your approach. For a woman, the experience of being by herself is totally different than it is for us.

In this instance, the guy should have made his move while she was in the bar. Or if he only just saw her in the elevator, then the only play is to make chit-chat and flirt in a very subtle way (like by speaking deeply, slowly) and then to gauge her reaction. If she flirts back, then maybe he makes the coffee invite as he's LEAVING the elevator, or as she's leaving. Totally different tension when the door's open as opposed to closed.

Again, this is obviously a case where the guy had ZERO skill, and I feel bad that his shitty pickup move has become a major controversy. Guy's probably traumatized for life!

Maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a totally different energy (if that's the word) in an elevator where a woman is attracted to me versus one where she's not. Do you guys get this? Like sometimes you can sense that she's PRAYING you say something to her, and other times she's PRAYING that you don't? [/url]

Lifts are pretty awkward places at the best of times. He probably went about it all wrong and didn't make her feel comfortable in his presence before asking her back. Then again, how much time do you really have to make someone feel comfortable in a life? If you don't try you'll never know, he just got unlucky.

Right, this guy clearly had a complete lack of skill, which is why he spooked this very sensitive feminist.

The irony is that, if I'm not mistaken, most feminists have nothing but contempt for the PUA community. And yet any guy here would have known that approaching a woman at that hour, at that place and in that matter was a bad idea.

Looking at the feminist skeptic, I somehow do not think she has been sarged much in any case! I mean, does anyone here think she would be worth trying to pick up on first impressions?