Hey there,

I've been trying Tinder recently, to see what it's all about and arrange some hookups/dates if the potential was there. I'm totally new to PUA, so it's also been a great place to discover and practice basic principles and develop some sort of inner game.

Would anyone be willing to critique this interaction for me please? I think that whilst it is flawed in so, so many ways, there are some sparse elements that worked well. I'm frustrated that I didn't number close that night however, as I thought at the time that I was on point, for a barebones rookie learning the ropes. I'm wondering whether I failed to escalate adequately. I was kind of just experimenting with the role which is why some of it may seem horrific - it's a little all over the place.

She was 20, 1 year older than myself, and her pictures lead me to believe an HB7/8. NB. I recognise I fucked up on the height area notably, although the run itself was far from tight. Should have just owned the set rather than flaking. Her responses ranged from instant to 4 minutes. I matched that. We talked for 3 hours (9pm-12:30am). Any and all opinions are welcome.

Me: (Wednesday) Hey _____!
Me: (Friday) So is the swipe and ignore part of your gamer, or is Tinder just for the ego boost?
Her: Bit of both Hun.
Me: Huh, and there was I thinking you were just pretty rude.
Guess I was half right.
Tell me something about you that will fascinate me
Her: I'm very ordinary
And rude
Me: Ordinary can be fascinating
But as for the rude...
Her: Rude is hilar
Sometimes
Me: I'm glad you amuse yourself!
Sometimes
How are you tonight?
Her: Gotta rely on number 1. Good tah, you?
Me: Don't rely too much ;P
Couldn't be better. Great day, great experiences, and now your conversation to top it off
Her: Flattery will get you no where
Me: I disagree. But ease up, I didn't say it was great conversation
Her: Ohh, sassy
Me: It's okay, you're attractive - not my type anyway. (*I could have segued into this more smoothly.*)
Her: How unfortunate.
Me: So what do you do with your life when you're not negging blokes on Tinder?
Her: What's negging?
Me: Being ordinarily rude
Something you're good at, so you tell me
Her: You younguns and your words. I neg people over the phone. You?
Me: I lift weights, read books and try to sound vaguely refined
An uphill struggle on all fronts, I assure you
Must say that if you're anywhere near as good at begging over the phone as you are on Tinder, you must be due a raise.
Her: No job? How tall are you? You're right, I need a raise. [/color] (*This threw me. I took the height request as an IOI, but the stupid anxiety was that I would be instantly discounted.*)
Me: If professional backpacker counts, certainly. Otherwise, no, just a student with a long history and big dreams.
Haha and are you asking me for my digits now? (*cringe*)
Her: Backpacker? Where are you now then? Your height plz
Me: I just got back from hitchhiking in Europe. Visiting family in _____ and old friends in [her town] before I head off again. (*I was just about to respond to the height request when she instantly messaged me the following. Need to learn to stack order of importance more effectively.*)
Her: Are you like 2ft tall?
Me: You've got me
In fact I'm Peter Dinklage
You may have seen me on GoT
Her: He's my fav
Me: So glad you're a fan of my work
And I tell you what
If you give me your digits, I'll give you mine, seeing as you seem so desperate for them
Her: Height.
Me: 5ft11 (*I'm not sure if jumping through her hoop here was a fault. Frankly I felt like my approach had been too wordy and wanted to just come straight out with it.*)
Her: You're lying..
Me: And you're rude
But no, I'm 5ft 10. The inch is my ego boost.
Her: Keep going.
Me: Haha, how do I send photos?
Her: I have no idea [my name]
Me: Shame, could have sent you the receipt from my gym measurements.
Would have called me out wonderfully for the 5ft9 liar I am
Her: Yeah, me too.
Me: So why the intense curiosity?
Her: Is that it or do you have a few more to go?..
Me: Is this with or without the stilts?
Haha and no, that's it
Not that it matters much (*Tried to regain control, ended up just looking low value - of course it matters, to her - my angle came off as desperate and clumsy.*)
Her: Lying's a sin..
Me: How fortunate that I'm already beyond saving..
Her: Calm it, Satan.
Me: Aren't we a funny one!
Her: I like to think so
Me: Well it's great that you focus on areas of development
I have an area that needs developing. It's a contact detail, with a name but no number next to it. (*This was a weird play from me. I normally just get the number instantly by saying something like "can you text me, easier than Tinder" - usually 100% compliance. However in this case I had already committed to requesting her number, and I got the impression for some reason that she wanted to play more of a game with me.*)
Her: Oh shit..
Got yourself in a right predicament there..
Me: I mean, I could always just change the name
You know, yo someone not quite so ordinary and definitely less rude
But in this case I'm mildly curious
Her: Maybe changing the name would be easier... MAYBE it'll be more fun.
Me: Yeah, I think you may be right
But I'm not so sure I like easy. And a big MAYBE is always so fascinating.
How about, hypothetically, you give me your number
And MAYBE I call you some time
Her: Oh how charming!
Me: Well, as you've been offering most of the rude tonight, I thought I'd meet you in the middle
Her: I own rude better than you
Me: And I own charm better than you
What say we thrash it out some time?
Her: Meaning..
Me: Meaning a coffee, or perhaps something more refreshing
Her: Like a lemonade?
Me: I was thinking more along the lines of a Moretti, but perhaps overlooking a beach. But a lemonade would totally do.
Her: Yeah, Moretti?
Me: A lager I discovered in Venice. My favourite, although I daresay your conversation would eclipse the drink
Her: Was that a compliment?
Me: I think we'll find out Goodnight you xx (*I was hoping this would end resistance. I overcomped, and ended the entire conversation - oops! Nonetheless, I do think it showed assertiveness and outcome-detachment which may have increased my perceived value*)
Her: Night fagit x

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was hoping I could get some feedback on tone, specific areas for improvement, including any radical shifts I should be trying. Comments on my own analyses would be awesome. Also, what do you folks think I should do on this target next?

I do think perhaps I also failed to set my goal. Was just typing out to you folks that my goal was anything from F-close to prolonged dates, and then realised how broad a spectrum that was to work towards, and how relatively directionless that made me.

Thanks for the time,
Best.

Me: (Wednesday) Hey _____!
Me: (Friday) So is the swipe and ignore part of your gamer, or is Tinder just for the ego boost?
Her: Bit of both Hun.
Me: Huh, and there was I thinking you were just pretty rude.
Guess I was half right.
Tell me something about you that will fascinate me
Her: I'm very ordinary
And rude
Me: Ordinary can be fascinating
But as for the rude...
Her: Rude is hilar
Sometimes
Me: I'm glad you amuse yourself!
Sometimes
How are you tonight?
Her: Gotta rely on number 1. Good tah, you?
Me: Don't rely too much ;P
Couldn't be better. Great day, great experiences, and now your conversation to top it off
Her: Flattery will get you no where
Me: I disagree. But ease up, I didn't say it was great conversation
Her: Ohh, sassy
Me: It's okay, you're attractive - not my type anyway. (*I could have segued into this more smoothly.*)
Her: How unfortunate.
Me: So what do you do with your life when you're not negging blokes on Tinder?
Her: What's negging?
Me: Being ordinarily rude
Something you're good at, so you tell me
Her: You younguns and your words. I neg people over the phone. You?
Me: I lift weights, read books and try to sound vaguely refined
An uphill struggle on all fronts, I assure you
Must say that if you're anywhere near as good at begging over the phone as you are on Tinder, you must be due a raise.
Her: No job? How tall are you? You're right, I need a raise. [/color] (*This threw me. I took the height request as an IOI, but the stupid anxiety was that I would be instantly discounted.*)
Me: If professional backpacker counts, certainly. Otherwise, no, just a student with a long history and big dreams.
Haha and are you asking me for my digits now? (*cringe*)
Her: Backpacker? Where are you now then? Your height plz
Me: I just got back from hitchhiking in Europe. Visiting family in _____ and old friends in [her town] before I head off again. (*I was just about to respond to the height request when she instantly messaged me the following. Need to learn to stack order of importance more effectively.*)
Her: Are you like 2ft tall?
Me: You've got me
In fact I'm Peter Dinklage
You may have seen me on GoT
Her: He's my fav
Me: So glad you're a fan of my work
And I tell you what
If you give me your digits, I'll give you mine, seeing as you seem so desperate for them
Her: Height.
Me: 5ft11 (*I'm not sure if jumping through her hoop here was a fault. Frankly I felt like my approach had been too wordy and wanted to just come straight out with it.*)
Her: You're lying..
Me: And you're rude
But no, I'm 5ft 10. The inch is my ego boost.
Her: Keep going.
Me: Haha, how do I send photos?
Her: I have no idea [my name]
Me: Shame, could have sent you the receipt from my gym measurements.
Would have called me out wonderfully for the 5ft9 liar I am
Her: Yeah, me too.
Me: So why the intense curiosity?
Her: Is that it or do you have a few more to go?..
Me: Is this with or without the stilts?
Haha and no, that's it
Not that it matters much (*Tried to regain control, ended up just looking low value - of course it matters, to her - my angle came off as desperate and clumsy.*)
Her: Lying's a sin..
Me: How fortunate that I'm already beyond saving..
Her: Calm it, Satan.
Me: Aren't we a funny one!
Her: I like to think so
Me: Well it's great that you focus on areas of development
I have an area that needs developing. It's a contact detail, with a name but no number next to it. (*This was a weird play from me. I normally just get the number instantly by saying something like "can you text me, easier than Tinder" - usually 100% compliance. However in this case I had already committed to requesting her number, and I got the impression for some reason that she wanted to play more of a game with me.*)
Her: Oh shit..
Got yourself in a right predicament there..
Me: I mean, I could always just change the name
You know, yo someone not quite so ordinary and definitely less rude
But in this case I'm mildly curious
Her: Maybe changing the name would be easier... MAYBE it'll be more fun.
Me: Yeah, I think you may be right
But I'm not so sure I like easy. And a big MAYBE is always so fascinating.
How about, hypothetically, you give me your number
And MAYBE I call you some time
Her: Oh how charming!
Me: Well, as you've been offering most of the rude tonight, I thought I'd meet you in the middle
Her: I own rude better than you
Me: And I own charm better than you
What say we thrash it out some time?
Her: Meaning..
Me: Meaning a coffee, or perhaps something more refreshing
Her: Like a lemonade?
Me: I was thinking more along the lines of a Moretti, but perhaps overlooking a beach. But a lemonade would totally do.
Her: Yeah, Moretti?
Me: A lager I discovered in Venice. My favourite, although I daresay your conversation would eclipse the drink
Her: Was that a compliment?
Me: I think we'll find out Goodnight you xx (*I was hoping this would end resistance. I overcomped, and ended the entire conversation - oops! Nonetheless, I do think it showed assertiveness and outcome-detachment which may have increased my perceived value*)
Her: Night fagit x

She was a total bitch to you and you barreled through it like a boss. keep it up and you will be unstoppable in no time. jumping through her hoops is okay only if she jumps through yours. try setting up a date before going for the number so when you ask for it you have a really good reason for asking for it. you played this well but keep your responses about the same length as hers. dont use pua lingo just in case the off chance that she googles the word negging and then boom your discovered.

Me: (Wednesday) Hey _____!
Me: (Friday) So is the swipe and ignore part of your gamer, or is Tinder just for the ego boost?
Her: Bit of both Hun.
Me: Huh, and there was I thinking you were just pretty rude.
Guess I was half right.
Tell me something about you that will fascinate me
Her: I'm very ordinary
And rude
Me: Ordinary can be fascinating
But as for the rude...
Her: Rude is hilar
Sometimes
Me: I'm glad you amuse yourself!
Sometimes
How are you tonight?
Her: Gotta rely on number 1. Good tah, you?
Me: Don't rely too much ;P
Couldn't be better. Great day, great experiences, and now your conversation to top it off
Her: Flattery will get you no where
Me: I disagree. But ease up, I didn't say it was great conversation
Her: Ohh, sassy
Me: It's okay, you're attractive - not my type anyway. (*I could have segued into this more smoothly.*)
Her: How unfortunate.
Me: So what do you do with your life when you're not negging blokes on Tinder?
Her: What's negging?
Me: Being ordinarily rude
Something you're good at, so you tell me
Her: You younguns and your words. I neg people over the phone. You?
Me: I lift weights, read books and try to sound vaguely refined
An uphill struggle on all fronts, I assure you
Must say that if you're anywhere near as good at begging over the phone as you are on Tinder, you must be due a raise.
Her: No job? How tall are you? You're right, I need a raise. [/color] (*This threw me. I took the height request as an IOI, but the stupid anxiety was that I would be instantly discounted.*)
Me: If professional backpacker counts, certainly. Otherwise, no, just a student with a long history and big dreams.
Haha and are you asking me for my digits now? (*cringe*)
Her: Backpacker? Where are you now then? Your height plz
Me: I just got back from hitchhiking in Europe. Visiting family in _____ and old friends in [her town] before I head off again. (*I was just about to respond to the height request when she instantly messaged me the following. Need to learn to stack order of importance more effectively.*)
Her: Are you like 2ft tall?
Me: You've got me
In fact I'm Peter Dinklage
You may have seen me on GoT
Her: He's my fav
Me: So glad you're a fan of my work
And I tell you what
If you give me your digits, I'll give you mine, seeing as you seem so desperate for them
Her: Height.
Me: 5ft11 (*I'm not sure if jumping through her hoop here was a fault. Frankly I felt like my approach had been too wordy and wanted to just come straight out with it.*)
Her: You're lying..
Me: And you're rude
But no, I'm 5ft 10. The inch is my ego boost.
Her: Keep going.
Me: Haha, how do I send photos?
Her: I have no idea [my name]
Me: Shame, could have sent you the receipt from my gym measurements.
Would have called me out wonderfully for the 5ft9 liar I am
Her: Yeah, me too.
Me: So why the intense curiosity?
Her: Is that it or do you have a few more to go?..
Me: Is this with or without the stilts?
Haha and no, that's it
Not that it matters much (*Tried to regain control, ended up just looking low value - of course it matters, to her - my angle came off as desperate and clumsy.*)
Her: Lying's a sin..
Me: How fortunate that I'm already beyond saving..
Her: Calm it, Satan.
Me: Aren't we a funny one!
Her: I like to think so
Me: Well it's great that you focus on areas of development
I have an area that needs developing. It's a contact detail, with a name but no number next to it. (*This was a weird play from me. I normally just get the number instantly by saying something like "can you text me, easier than Tinder" - usually 100% compliance. However in this case I had already committed to requesting her number, and I got the impression for some reason that she wanted to play more of a game with me.*)
Her: Oh shit..
Got yourself in a right predicament there..
Me: I mean, I could always just change the name
You know, yo someone not quite so ordinary and definitely less rude
But in this case I'm mildly curious
Her: Maybe changing the name would be easier... MAYBE it'll be more fun.
Me: Yeah, I think you may be right
But I'm not so sure I like easy. And a big MAYBE is always so fascinating.
How about, hypothetically, you give me your number
And MAYBE I call you some time
Her: Oh how charming!
Me: Well, as you've been offering most of the rude tonight, I thought I'd meet you in the middle
Her: I own rude better than you
Me: And I own charm better than you
What say we thrash it out some time?
Her: Meaning..
Me: Meaning a coffee, or perhaps something more refreshing
Her: Like a lemonade?
Me: I was thinking more along the lines of a Moretti, but perhaps overlooking a beach. But a lemonade would totally do.
Her: Yeah, Moretti?
Me: A lager I discovered in Venice. My favourite, although I daresay your conversation would eclipse the drink
Her: Was that a compliment?
Me: I think we'll find out Goodnight you xx (*I was hoping this would end resistance. I overcomped, and ended the entire conversation - oops! Nonetheless, I do think it showed assertiveness and outcome-detachment which may have increased my perceived value*)
Her: Night fagit x

She was a total bitch to you and you barreled through it like a boss. keep it up and you will be unstoppable in no time. jumping through her hoops is okay only if she jumps through yours. try setting up a date before going for the number so when you ask for it you have a really good reason for asking for it. you played this well but keep your responses about the same length as hers. dont use pua lingo just in case the off chance that she googles the word negging and then boom your discovered.

That girl sucks, man.


So you started out strong. Opened, and reopened for a response.

I don't like that you used PUA lingo on her.

Professional backpacker is kind of weak. I used Profession Sandclastle Demolisher recently for great success

You displayed value imo, by talking about backpacking through europe.


Bad idea to go from the number close to date close. If she wasn't going to give you her number easily, she is going to be even more difficult to get a date out of.

All in all, it seems you did pretty well. She wasn't interested from the beginning, and using you for entertainment, but you were close.

I like that you tried to pressure the close, but maybe say something like " i'm going for a run, but send me your number next time you are lonely.

Thanks for your replies both.

Acetheartist, I'll try demoing the idea of an encounter/date as some sort of playful fantasy before number closing when I next play this style of game. Your idea is good, and it also has the added bonus of developing rapport. Just gotta be careful not to fluff too much.

Problem with matching the length of her responses in terms of word count is that often they're very unresponsive as the target. I feel like I have to establish the frame, and therefore provide more of the conversation to ease her into it with comfort and a sense of emotional connection. That said your intuition is right - I have a tendency to waffle and must watch it.

Alphabro, thanks. Haha sandcastle demolisher is one I'd forgotten about, wish I'd beeb witty enough to remember. I used backpacker to try to establish authenticity, as I have a photo of me travelling and have briefly mentioned in my tag line that I love travel. Like you said, seemed a pretty easy DHV, and also so essy to segue into as I can use it for storytelling or merely as an introduction to why I'm in the area. Very right in your date/number close comment, and I like your suggestion for pressuring a close - might take that for the toolkit if you don't mind.

You guys think I should eject on this one?

Cheers

Definitely don't eject yet if you still wanna smash, but she sucks. So rude to call you a faggot on the end. Hit her up again and continue with your same game. Maybe don't seem so eager for the date close this time. Or go for the date close and skip the number close. Try to get her talking about herself a little more.


And yeah man, feel free to use my pressure line. It works pretty much every time if the there is basic attraction already. It basically says "i've got to go. I"m not asking for your number but I will gladly use it to make your life better if you give it to me"

Was waiting for that one to reply. She still hasn't, and I think enough time has passed for me not to appear too AFC. Might re-initiate tomorrow with a cold hard neg to grab her attention and bite back a little.

Thanks for the line dude!

So today I fancied trying something completely new. Had had Django Unchained on my mind all day for some reason, and was inspired by Schultz's strategy to buy Hildie, based upon the idea that if you want something, you make an exaggerated offer so ridiculous that it can't help but gain attention. If successful, that thing that you actually want appears small by comparison, and will be offered up far more easily, with less resistance. Saw a parallel here between the development of the pitch as a principle and the development of the PUA frame in a set. Wanted the eventual F-close, so had to create an exaggerated fiction around it. Thought this strategy could be interesting to try coupled with a confident push, natural rapport, and an attempt to avoid too many cliché moves on my part that might reduce my uniqueness. I'm not gonna lie, it felt horribly sloppy at a structural level based on the PUA models - kept wanting to neg or release after hooking to initiate more push/pull, but I tried to let it climax and not play too much to the system. It was interesting so I'll post it to get y'all thoughts.

So, background on the girl for context. HB8 imo unless talented photoshopper. Self-confidence seemed to be at about a 5 though - in her tagline she was like "yes, I know my shoulders look massive", she was also using filters in her photos. Smells of low self-esteem to me. Had been matched with her for about 5 days and had not opened. Call her Ann. Ann was 18 Years Old, so a year younger than myself. She was quick to reply and gave off a bubbly, somewhat suggestive tone - real feeling of IOI spam coming from her.

I had posted a moment earlier today to hook in any potentials. Standard body pic, not too sexual, tagged "Let's tessellate". Ann liked it twice, and followed up instantly with two of her own moments, which I gave a like each and opened directly:

Me: Hey there you
Her: hey you
Me: Pleasure. I couldn't help but notice your cute moments
Her: hehe are they cute?
Me: Yeah, the shoulder chronicles have been cute
Her: hehehe
Me: So tell me something about you that will fascinate me
Her: I have a lion king tattoo? haha I play football? I'm not very fascinating
Me: I've backpacked across all of Europe and I've never met anyone who failed to be fascinating
The lion king tattoo is definitely a new one to me though haha!
Her: hahaha wow that's so cool!!! hahaha
Me: I'm not so sure, think you may have the edge over me with that tatt (*I don't normally include smilies or even type out 'haha" much, but I felt like for this run with this plan in mind, I needed to develop early comfort despite the initial hit to my sex appeal.*)
Her: I.have 3 tattoos they're all weird as hahaha
Me: Haha ok you've set yourself up, now I'm just too curious not to ask
Her: I have 'I like the way that we play' on my collar, samba on my shoulder and the cat from a Tim Burton film on my wrist.
Me: Well I have to agree with you
I like the way you play
So when you're not getting inked what do you get up to? (*Needed more energy, rinse and repeat with another builder*)
Her: Just work, football aand gym
Me: You sound thrilled
Her: that's my life haha yourself?
Me: I'm spontaneous. Workout, travel, new people, places, sensations
Life's good (*Frame building. Shift to assertive tone, less grammar, less need to qualify myself, more DHV*)
Her: sounds lovely!
Me: It is. Totally fantastic adventures come from the most unexpected of places (*More frame building, trying to plant the seeds*)
Her: that's the best way to live though
Me: What can I call you? Cutie gets repetitive (*This was intended to be a reward for the agreement she just gave me that allowed me to progress. Maybe not so smooth on my part, not sure*)
Her: call me what you like honey
Me: Haha you could be trouble
Her: Could I
Me: Do you drive my dear?
You see trouble fascinates me
And you could be just the sort of trouble I look for in a person
Her: No not yet, oooo does it?
Me: Mmm, well we have the beginnings of an adventure taking shape
Right now I have no car
And also no travelling companion
Her: well I have a car I just can't legally drive it haha
Me: Have you ever done something totally spontaneous?
Her: ummm nope just tattoos and a few piercings haha
Me: Hahaha (*This was weak, low value of me. BUT at the same time, I realised that I needed to be gathering as much comfort and approachability as possible. Giving her the laugh made her feel rewarded I think. Still, a mistake - totally contentless.*)
Her: you?
Me: I live by the word
*[Pause to see if she was hooked. Tension was nice.]*
Forgive me
Maybe I'm the trouble here
But what if we just seized the moment and went travelling for a day or two?
*[Long pause - 8 mins, decided she'd been scared off, was waiting for the unmatch.]*
Her: that would be so random
Me: It would
But kinda fun no?
At uni, when it all gets a little intense, I often pack my bag and hitchhike away for a bit (*Again, this blah blah blah section here was unnecessary and made me look lower value. But once more it was a comfort attempt - attempt to make me more relatable to her.*)
Her: hahahah you're mad!!! Its so cool though
Me: I hope so! The only interesting people are the mad ones
I feel like going for a run. If you're ever bored, or lonely, text me. [Number] (*kudos Alphabro*)
[5 min pause.]
Her: will do gorgeous x

What do you think? Merely lucky with the girl I got, or a valid approach in principle once the inevitable tweaks are implemented?

I'll let you know if/when she texts me - might just have been looking to escape my conversation.

Cheers.

Who has a link to a torrent of that "Conquer Tinder" book? haha

_________________
Cheers,
OptionX

i would never call a girl i'm gaming "rude" especially right after she invests time to talk back. you can tell she carried that for a while

_________________
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Be a member of my youtube channel -> http://bit.ly/DrewDatingMember
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Cheers for the replies.

Kingoftinder - yeah, it is a longer sarge. This was actually a considered choice for my target demographic due to a number of factors including age, context, and local customs regarding casual encounters and Tinder. I have before and since experimented with the instant number crunch and found it problematic, mainly due to the insanely high number of locals having discounted Tinder as anything more than picture rating on principle. That said, I'm sure there is some golden mean between these two poles. Lots more study and practice needed.

Andy - you'll notice I didn't call her rude. I suggested she may have been had she not gotten back to me, and then insinuated that she was pretty. She called herself rude, and I merely used that as a rapport building point, never actually asserting it as my own judgement. The reason I rode the 'rude' was because it allowed me to push-pull without ever having to come up with my own judgement, merely using one she had offered. You're right in that she did carry it, and I'm kinda convinced that's great because it gave us conversational material with opportunity for neg, rapport and value games. I also think it'd have been super AFC to disagree with her about her own rudeness

Thanks for the comments.