Yep, you clearly know how well I do online right? The only thing that prevents me from getting laid every night by a different girl online is time and my interest in doing other things in my life besides hooking up with women from online dating.

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

You seem pretty honest. I'm not saying looks are 99% of pickup, it's totally different, they are probably half of what you need however this is not a part of the equation this is a requirement if you want to be able to find success on the reg. When you meet the looks requirements you still have things you need to consider(logistics, extraction process, LMR, and shit like that.) But chasing the dream as an average guy is a scam.

However I need to call you out on your ability to get a new girl from online dating that frequently, it seems very possible however no legit hot chick uses online dating for anything else than validation. They dont need this shit. Online dating as a non-model tier guy is alright if you have low standards or a BBW fetish.

You are wrong about online. Naturally, not all the women I meet are 9s and 10s, but 9s and 10s do exist online, and I do meet them from time to time, and they are real, and I close them also. You must have mostly experience on free dating sites. Women don't pay $20/month for match.com etc. for 'validation'.

Now I see the point you are trying to make. Look, there are a large number of girls that do have a 'baseline attraction level' that you must meet. However, it is not all women, and maybe not even most women (how old are you btw?, these things also very a lot with age). I also agree that the average guy won't get every 10 in the world with just pick up technique because women are not stupid, and they will see that the guy is average through even the best techniques. What I am saying is that you can stand out and be well above average without having to be well above average in the looks dept. And THAT is how you CAN get the best women, and some of the ways to stand out are really EASY to accomplish (such as having and displaying confidence, etc.) That is where pick up can help the average guy the most. And also, say you are a '5' as a guy, if you can learn some stuff about pick up and go from getting 5s to getting 6s and 7s on the reg, which is 100% doable, that is still pretty huge isn't it?

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

I dont think we have the same standards for 9's and 10's this the very elite we're talking about here.
I have payed for a french online dating site for two months and no really hot woman(8+) seemed to actually want to meet guys judging from their profile and responses(if any). The difficulty I experienced clearly increased or decreased accordingly to their looks level. Many deluded PUA's pretend all women are the same and have the same attraction switches but this is such bullshit. They react rationally and according to their sexual market value. There was a sea of chubby girls that seemed DTF after a few messages, as seen in the male model experiments. Average girls were trying to cocktease their way into a relationship and the hottest girls just enjoyed the validation. Very much like what goes on in real life for me most of the time.

I'm 27 and I've experienced much younger and much older women(from 16 to 42 in the last couple years), they are very different in life but they are all picky and aware of their sexual market value when they are attractive now matter how old they are.

Of course there are things you can work on in your behavior and experience you can gain to maximize your success with women(not everyone has the physical attributes to be active on the casual sex scene). Denying it would be as stupid as denying the power of looks. However looks are the one underrated aspect of your ability to seduce in the community. This hypocrisy needs to be stopped and the male model experiments are a great proof of the power of looks.

this doesn't work, I messaged over 38 women with similar and different pick up lines that you used in the photos.

And after 4 days, only 2 messaged me and that this was one of the responses

Interesting, which pictures did you use, I dont remember sending that one to anybody and I'm not sure of who the shirtless guy is. Is it a real male model or just a guy you think is good-looking? The male model experiments rarely dissapoint chances are this is a picture of you and you fancy yourself as good looking or even male-model tier when you aren't. Upload this pic here so we can tell.



I'll provide passwords of the accounts if it's necessary to prove to you guys that this is not fake.

B fucking S. Use THIS profile and tell me it doesn't work! h tt p :/ / w w w. pof. c o m/ viewprofile . aspx ?profile_id =60995245 (remove spaces)

This guy can say/do ANYTHING and still have the girls wanting sex with him. I'd know because it's my account.

Are you really THAT big of a tool where you sit around and make profiles with guys pictures, just so you can tell yourself that unless you are extremely good looking, you can't get a girlfriend? That is so pathetic man.

You seem to think all women find the same things attractive. I want you to go sit in the corner and really think about how fucking DUMB that sounds. Everyone has different taste. You think that all women are attracted to the "Brad Pitt" type and you are 150% WRONG. Stop being so ignorant.

I'm socially competent and can be quite witty when I need to be. I am slightly below average looking and basically got zero responses from women on online dating. Everything remaining the same except for the picture saw not only a slight increase in responses, but just about a 100% response rate. Looks matter so, SO much more than you guys say. I wish it wasn't the case, but it is.

Also, I used to visit these forums a couple of years ago and had about 200 posts. I'm simply not attractive enough to get girls through "game".

I'm glad you at least hinted looks plays a significant role in attraction. Science and psychology has repeatedly verified this.

You're still not understanding... Looks matter as far as what type of women you attract. If you are some dude who looks like he gets dressed in the dark, has terrible skin, a bad hair cut, AND your social skills suck.... yet you want model caliber women who hang out in high end night clubs, it's not gonna happen. I'll promise you that. But those are all things you can change IF YOU WANT TO. Or you can find a girl who will "like you for who you are."

Attraction is not something that has a "standard." Everyone finds different things attractive. SOMEWHERE out there, no matter what you look like, there are girls that will be attracted to you. Are they the type of women you want? If not, you need to change something about yourself or deal with the fact that your hopes are unrealistic. You need to change your course of action or change your destination goal. (Better yourself or lower your standards.)

Maybe this analogy will help you understand... I used to sell cars. The dealership I used to work at was a Ford dealership. We had a 2011 Ford Fusion with SMURF BLUE interior. Most people who looked at the car said "why would anyone ever want that?!" but within a week, that car had sold because someone thought it was the coolest thing in the world. There is an ass for every seat. There is a girl (multiple girls) for every guy. Realize that you are enough to get girls... if you want better girls, you have to become a better version of yourself.

There is a universal and general consensus on what constitutes attractiveness. You could have a conversation with your buddies about what kind of girl you find attractive and have different answers, but the moment you actually put a hot woman in front of them (double D breasts, 0.7:1 waist:hip ratio, big blue eyes and a feminine face) they will all find themselves biologically attracted. Funny how the only girls who found me 'their type' were fugly.

Is it just a coincidence that the kind of guys that are concluded to be attractive by me and model agencies do fantastically well in online dating? Is it not even a thought worth entertaining to you? Facial symmetry, FWHratio, strong mandibles, good skin, wide frame...these are all signs of high testosterone and health. Funny jokes and confidence is gender neutral, there is no intrinsic attractive value. High sexual dimorphism is absolutely mandatory for a ONS (studies have shown this).

It's not nice understanding this, and I wish so badly that you guys were right, but looks do matter. Far, far more than any of you would like to believe.

EDIT: If you'd like to really pursue these arguments then why don't you take this up with professors and academics. They're the ones invariably coming to these same conclusions through proper sholarly methods. Are they misinformed too?

Ugh. You have started with the academics etc. These studies are often very flawed and highly misleading. Furthermore, no one is arguing that looks don't matter. But dude, even if 80% of women only care about looks, do you know how many women 20% of the women out there are?? A shit load. Also, what women say they like and are attracted to and who they actually date are different. Attraction studies are NOTORIOUSLY hard to conduct accurately. You are clearly very depressed about your looks and continue to make yourself more depressed because you keep proving to yourself the obvious, that good looking guys can get girls easily. This does not MATTER. Really rich ugly guys can get hot girls easily also. So can very powerful men. If anything, POWER is much more attractive than looks and the most POWERFUL men can get ANY woman they want, even more than the best looking guy.

Look, I do agree with you about some things:

(1) Looks do matter. Women are attracted to men who are good looking. This is true
(2) Improving your looks will improve your success with women. This is true. I did it with myself, going from a 130lbs nerdy kid with glasses to 175lbs of mostly muscle, ditched the glasses, and learned how to dress.
(3) Some women will not give you a chance no matter what because of your looks. Yes, they exist.

However, looks are simply one form of value. You can display value to women in MANY ways, and many women respond to much more than looks. You should worry about how you can display value to women, not on how other people can display value. As for one night stands, yea looks matter a bit more for that than other type of lays, but not as much as you think. I mostly get one night stands, and I am averaging looking, 5'8". I have a good body, but that is about it, and anyone can get a good body.

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Not true. The only things studies have confirmed as universally attractive are waist to hip ratio for women, and facial symmetry for both genders. So, for instance, a woman could be 30lbs overweight and still be considered "biologically attractive" if her waist-to-hip ratio was right.. yet our society would't consider her attractive in general.

Then you have women in particular being attracted to status, power and money... I mean seriously, how many rock stars are really attractive? Not many... in fact a lot of them are damn ugly. Misshapen faces, scrawny bodies... yet women just drool over their "talent." Seriously, if you're ugly and you want hot women learn to play the guitar.

TheFury, your post is legit, especially the part about power(status) being even more potent than looks to get easy casual sex. However you make it sound like we're beating a dead horse, but we're not, see the deluded majikalmethod posts about looks not mattering at all and the RSD rants about the same topic.

My point is that looks matter a lot if you want to get good at picking up legit hot girls on the reg(and they matter just as much in other areas of your life) with no commitment in return and that it's not for everyone. Just being rational here although I admit it's fun to rustle jimmies and to make fun of blue pillers. Dating dynamics are natural, instinct driven, ruthless and it's a very cynical game. Embrace it for what it is.

The everyone has a different taste bullshit is straight-up wishful thinking. We would all be drooling over Lucy Pinder being flirty with us. Just like women can no longer put on their princess act when interacting with an elite-looking or very powerful man, as proven by the male model experiments.

So you let other people tell you what you should find attractive? Have a mind of your own man. Don't let other people tell you what you "should be" or "should like."