Cheers Jon,

I looked at them and it seems that Match.com only seems to be UK but a search didn't really bring up that much of a variety for my target. Hm i'll search about, Thanks anyways.

_________________
If you think you are beaten, you are.
If you think you dare not, you don't.
If you think you'll lose, you've lost.
--It's all in the STATE OF MIND--

Hey J, I got a couple of quick questions?

Whats a good opener on facebook for a random girl?

And secondly

What is a good opener and follow up for a old high school crush?

Thanks,
B-Man

Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas.

A great facebook opener would be the one a good friend of mine, Whoopie, started using. It's called the "poke opener" and you can find how it's used on the forum here 1-vt19004.html?start=0

I use to stay with mostly dating sites but when I did go to Facebook I used Whoopie's opener to get results.

As far as an old High School crush, I would probably be direct. Before I get split roasted here let me tell you why. I understand it's good to go indirect with people you don't know build the attraction, comfort, etc. With people you already know it's hard to undo what they think of you. Now if it has been a "long" time since you've seen each other like 4+ years you mihgt have a shot that way.

Going direct is what I call a "High Risk / High Reward" situation. Either you will get the girl or you won't. However, you also won't be spending days trying to come up with the right responses and take her through the process only to get rejected because of her past feelings for you.

If I went in direct I would message her something like...."I know this is totally random but I came across your profile, remembered you, and thought I wonder what she's been up to?"

From here you are going to ask her out within a few messages of what you guys have been doing lately. You might say something like, "It's cool catching up with you online. Friday I'm going to xxxx for a few hours because I realy like their drinks. You should tag along. Just keep in mind all I'm promising is good conversation."

Merry Christmas,

Jon

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Jon, I hope you had a nice Xmas and also have a great, prosperous 2009. I've been a longtime forum lurker, so thought I'd register, as I also read your excellent blog.

I have a probably 5 part question to ask and I'm very sorry it's long winded, but there's no rush to answer. I think I have a hell of a lot of work to do on inner game, but the first parts relate to online game and why I prefer it to being out in the field, what you think about older guys experimenting with lying about their age online (I'll explain why I'm doing that) and the other 2 parts relate to noticing how most of the current PUA guru – instructors fairly poorly and superficially address the Approach Anxiety older guys (that are over 35) feel about being the 'creepy older guy' who's out in the field. I have the balls to approach, but the 'creepy older guy' frame of mind (that I suspect is related to very poor inner game) is my big problem, even though I'm not creepy and am a nice friendly guy. The large majority all of the PUA guru – instructors are fairly young guys themselves and 95 – 98 % of the male posters on this forum and other PUA forums, would be aged from 15 – 35, so I don't at all blame them for poorly addressing older guy problems, as guys on this forum aged from 36 – 55 comprise a much smaller group.

Unlike the large majority of the guys here (aged from 15 – 35), I came across the PUA community rather late unfortunately, like 6 months ago when I was 43. I wish I came across it 10 or 20 years ago, but the internet only came on the scene in the mid 1990s, so one has to be realistic. I'm 44 now, have no kids and have never married, whereas most guys my age have married at least once. I prefer the idea of using online game, because unlike most guys my age, I have the advantage
(from having a healthy lifestyle and diet), of looking younger than my age and wouldn't have a problem passing myself off as a 30 – 35 year old, but am average looking. I only say this from seeing photos of some other guys online, who are in their 40s and haven't aged well.

Be that as it may, with being out in the 'field', I get badly afflicted with feeling like the 'creepy older guy', hitting on younger women in their 30s and 20s, hence the reason I haven't made any approaches like that and even if I did, the alcohol drinking, loud music environment of night clubs and bars (for night game) isn't my scene. I'm sure some advanced PUA guys would say 'dude relax, I see guys in their 40s with great game, who pick up younger women in night clubs all the time'. I'm really glad to hear that, but where I am in Australia that has a much smaller population than the US, that isn't really the experience like it might be in the US, so the stigma of being the 'creepy older guy' is a lot stronger. I suspect trying to find wingmen in my city (if I did really want to go out in the field) might be difficult, as wingmen want a guy in his 20s or early 30s. I know Mystery is 37 and some people would say Ross Jefferies is an older guy, but I have a low opinion of NLP, so don't really consider him an
'instructor' on the level of Sinn and Mystery. Eben Pagan
(David DeAngelo) is 38, but I consider him to be primarily a conman - information marketer, not a PUA instructor.

With respect to someone saying 'dude go out in the field to hit on women in their 40s and late 30s', the problem there I find (and it's also the same online with many women aged from 35 – 50, but not all of course), is when I'm in my local shopping mall, many women in this age group have tended to let themselves go, so are fat - overweight, ugly - unattractive and / or are married with at least 1 kid or more, or maybe
separated – divorced with at least 1 kid, or more.

I suspect it's no different to North America, but I've noticed many women online are hugely fussy and picky about the age of guys contacting them, to the point where some say stuff like 'don't bother contacting me if you're over 30 (or over 35), or I'll immediately delete your message and block you' and / or 'if you contact me and are outside my age preference, don't waste your time writing me, as you won't get a reply', on their profile. It's frustrating if you're an older guy, but I suspect this is really due to women being socially conditioned to believing only guys in their age group (or no more than 10 years older than themselves) are for them and I do empathise with this conditioning.

I don't have a MySpace page, but notice people there often put a fairly ridiculous age for themselves (like 99), which can be used online, but women will just end up asking how old you are. Since online is essentially very looks oriented to the larger majority of hotter women (compared to the fatter and more unattractive ones), if I was a chick online in my mid 20s and got messaged by a guy aged from 38 – 50, who looked average from his profile photos, wasn't fit and looked older than his age (as not all men and women age well), it'd be a turn off. If the older guy looked after himself in looks and grooming, was successful in his life and had really good game, I'd probably not react that way, but I'm just surmising.

With respect to me lying and saying on my profile I'm either 35 or 30, which I can get away with, you might say 'the problem I see, is what if you meet a lady or any ladies from online, they agree to meet you in person and yous hit it off really well. At some point dude, you'll have to fess up about your real age, so would you ?' Or 'what if you meet a lady from online in person and she asks you to show her your driver's license ?'. The answer is yes, after having sex (if that happens), I'd then admit my age and would say I was doing it as an attraction
'experiment', upon noticing how stuck up and very picky most women are about age and that I wanted to show attraction can override the age obsession requirement I saw women having in their online profile. If you were to ask, 'if you were out in the field, would you also lie about your age ?', that's a good question. Focusing on creating attraction and comfort first, I probably would initially, for the very same reason.

Don't get me wrong, as I'm not under the foolish illusion that any chick in her 20s or early 30's would want to be seen out with an older guy, not unless he's loaded financially and is being her sugar daddy. If you ask
'are you looking for a serious relationship, with a view to getting married' the answer is no, as I don't feel I'm currently ready for that. At the same time, no older guy who's over 40, wants to be the 'creepy older guy' in his 50s, who's trying to pick up women, not unless he looks like George Clooney who turns 48 in 2009.

My final question is why don't the more credible PUA guru - instructors make more of an effort to take footage of themselves out in the field to show how they game. I know it's not easy to do with a hidden camera and you need someone to follow you to take the footage. You had that fascinating footage on your blog of Sinn gaming and then talking about it to Mehow, but I want to see much more footage of Sinn, as reading his blog articles and then seeing how he games women, are very different. I'd love to also see similar footage of female pick up artists out in the field, to also see how they game. I seen a couple things of Mystery out in the field, but not that much and while most people would say check out Mehow's stuff, who regularly has himself filmed out in the field, I'm not a big fan of Mr. Mehow's style of gaming.

I wanted to let you know that I saw your question. I am about to board a plane as I write this to go visit my girlfriend and her family. I will respond as soon as I return on Sunday or Monday.

I wanted to make sure you realized I hadn't forgotten about you.

Talk to you guys soon,

Jon

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

hey

i kiss closed a girl in a club. now i speak to her on oasis active a few days later, now i get the feeling by the things thats shes writing (and what she was like at the club, she had a few guys..lol) that shes only into casual dating or casual sex however she hasnt said that for sure. how do i kind of work the net game so that i can work out maybe a casual sex relationship kind of thing out of it, as im sure thats what we both want


THANKS HEAPS MATE! ps. parts of the convo i had are in the thread "what do you guys make of this comment" and id appreciate anyones ideas on that/ cheers!

Thanks for your patience. I hope you had a good Christmas as well.
There seem to be a lot of lurkers here. Glad you enjoyed the blog.
I agree the demongraphic for this is mostly guys from 15-35, and that is what is most of the instructors teach towards. I can see how it'd be difficult for you 'in-field' amoungst 20 somethings all over the place.

I agree inner game could also help that, but that's up to you.

Online Game could offer you a significant advantage based on what you telling me.
That includes me man! I was married once. I wish I came up on it when I was younger as well. I figure it's never too late!

At least with no ex-wives or kids around it gives you a lot of time to focus on getting better with this.
I can see where you are going with this and I definitely think you have an advantage because your life is more organized than guys in their 20s. You have stability and most men early on don't have that. Not to mention it sounds like you have a good lifestyle and that is very attractive to women.

You're right in that most people don't take care of themselves all that well after the age of 35 typically. You will have a huge advantage against guys close to your age and even younger.
David DeAngelo actually has some great stuff for inner game but he is very commercial so I can see why you think that. I have several of his programs that I listen to and would recommend to you. His views on women are pretty impressive and quoted often around the community.

Ross Jeffries is someone who I don't presonally agree with, and won't say much more about.

Mystery & Sinn have high marks in my book personally. I actually like Sinn better but that my personal preference. Mostly this is because Sinn is always combining styles and improving where Mystery seems to not change his core teachings much at all.

I agree that you can easily come across as the 'creepy old guy' in a nightclub. From what I hear about the clubs in Australia they are a lot different from the U.S. in the way people respond to you. I actually understand it's tougher there and most anywhere in the U.S. Perhaps that was because the guy telling me about it was from here and not local. Anyways, I see what you mean.

I do agree that as you said earlier that inner game is going to be a key component to this.
Yeah, its the same here as well. There is a lot of women on dating sites in this age group.
You are once again right, this is completely due to social conditioning and them being 'told' what is and is not attractive. One of the first things women look at when they are contacted by someone other than the message is a picture. Based on what you are telling me this should be to our advantage. Then we just have to be very confident and direct in our approach.

If we can convey what we need to in our approach to them this won't be a problem. I would go for a very confident and sexually energized approach to get to the point of what we are after. This is the basic theme that I'd keep in mind when writing to women.
I agree with what you are saying here. A lot of people on Facebook and MySpace put ridiculous ages on their to mask their real age. This could be something you could definitely do. Then of course if and when women ask you can always make them guess.
I hear you on this. I would say those things. You have been reading this post for a while.

If you aren't looking for a serious relationship then I can see how the age situation isn't going to matter a lot. It can be eased around and skirted while building attraction and comfort. It has been done many times before by other people.

I guess what I'm getting at here is if it doesn't bother you to do this, then I'm really not bothered either. I can see a big advantage for you doing this for online game. The bottom line is if it gets you the results you want to have then by all means do it. If she is attracted to you and likes you then it's on!
I'm not sure why they don't make more in-field footage. I guess real time constraints come into play because most of the "big" instructors are off teaching all the time. It's kind of hard to ask a new student to be on film.

I've personally gone out and done this as well, and it's also very intimidating knowing all your movements and words are being recorded. You know that everything will be analyzed by the community over and over again by other instructors and PUAs. When I watched my own footage it bothered me a lot seeing all my mistakes, but I still got what I wanted.

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of video on Sinn in field out there that I'm aware of. For the longest time the community only had one photo of the guy. To be honest there isn't much in field footage out there at all. Mystery has some that he did from his "Holy Grail" videos.

Mehow presently has the most because of his In-Field Insider show. He actually has a collection of these you can purchase. He records some of the best out there in my opinion. Your best source for most of this is to look around on YouTube.
Mehow's style is different and it's not congruent with my style either. As I mentioned before he films other great guys that can help us out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Mehowtv?ob=1

Here is another guy I would check out for in field stuff. His name is Speer. If you read Sinns blog regularly you know he's a friend of Speer's and likes his method.

http://www.youtube.com/user/speermethod

I haven't personally heard of any female pickup artists doing in field work but there could be some out there.

Does this help answer your questions? If I missed something please point it out to me.

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

First of all, I want to say if you have her number you should be working her through the phone as it's far more personal than online. Get her on a date with you as soon as you can so you can escalate things.

The other thing is 'Online Game' as I teach it is just to get you through a cold approach online to meeting the girl for a date in person. With that being said there are other things we can do with it. And it's outline isn't always that rigid but it's tough to get into specifics. It's just the ultimate goal is to get the girl 1 on 1 with us.

It's kind of like getting a phone number. It's a means to an end it's not the "end" itself. Just like when you win millions of dollars in the lottery. It's not so much the money you want as it is what you can do with the money buying things.

The biggest problem I see with this is we are assuming that she wants that type of relationship and we aren't 100% sure. Still you are there and I'm not and that accounts for a lot. If you are right this should help, if we're wrong then we're going to creep her out and it's over.

You got a kiss close which is nice. The biggest thing we have to do here is get her 1 on 1 with you again. I don't know enough about your interaction with her to tell you if you might need more comfort or attraction built, but let's assume we're Aces and everything is cool for a bit.

You need to get this girl messaging you or talking to you so you can get in person. Keep a confident, somewhat cocky, sexual overtone in your messages with her. When you do get her 1 on 1 you are going to need to immediately go into kino escalation. If you're 'feeling' about her is correct she might have been waiting for this to go further on day 1. She might be a bit turned off by the fact we didn't go further with her, so we need to correct for this on Day 2.

What do you do?

Send her a message and keep it short but to the point. At first we just want something to get her attention and be playful.

Subject: Guess What

MESS: YOU SUCK!

She'll send back something like "What?!?" or "WHY?!?"

You'll send her back...

I was at the grocery today and I realized I don't know what kind of drinks you like. You see I always keep '(any beer name)' in my fridge for my buddy whenever he comes into town. I don't drink it, its just sits there for whenever he drops by.

So, I totally realized I don't know what kind of drinks you like.

YOU SUCK!

This is more of a comfort building routine, but it also starts to plant ideas in her head of her being at your place. You are getting her slowly more comfortable with that idea. From there she's going to start telling you things and you can eventually invite her over for some fun. Nothing serious, remember, girls need "social excuses" to be at your place. You can invite her over to play games on Wii or something, possibly even a movie later on.

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Jon, very best wishes for the new year. With the issue of age fussy women online, there probably isn't much a guy can do for women who are fixated on age. Can you please offer your expert tips on what to suggest saying to women online, who on their profile are similarly
fussy - picky - fixated about 2 other things I sometimes notice. Firstly height, as it wouldn't pay for a guy to lie about his height on his profile. It's conditioning, but I can sympathise with some tall women saying they prefer a tall guy as tall as them, or taller. There's also the flipside of some fairly tall women who say some guys are intimidated by their height, so find it hard to meet someone. I know you're a tall guy yourself. There's probably only so much a guy can do about this ; if a chick online wants to only meet tall guys and gets messaged by them, then she'll likely pick them.

Like a chick might say on her profile 'you must be as tall as me or taller, or don't bother messaging me', or 'you must absolutely be taller than me (6 foot) - no exceptions, as I won't reply back and will immediately delete your message', etc. This is of course a big disadvantage to using online, whereas in face to face interactions, any short guy with advanced game can utilise other seduction tools at his disposal, for a tall chick he'd might try successfully or unsuccessfully gaming.

If you're a guy who isn't over 6 foot - I think I'm a couple inches under, do you suggest a guy not bother messaging such women, or with having a try anyway as an experiment and being full on cocky and funny about their request or ball busting them – 'to be honest, I'm actually 9 foot 10 inches tall, but had to lie about it on my profile, as I didn't want to freak women out about it. Meet me in person and we'll discuss this', or with using a more watered down type of C&F – 'I respect a lady who knows what she wants and states it, but can you explain your fixation on height to me, as it seems shallow' - I haven't used this, but it'd seem a bad line to use. I reckon C & F may disarm some height fussy women, but not others who are totally fixated on it. I realise there's plenty of short guys with excellent game and you've probably met many guys yourself, who are very successful with tall women. The Lovesystems instructor Cajun, who's appeared on the Keys to the VIP show, is a pretty short guy
with brilliant game.

The second is one is women online, who express being fussy about
or also fixated on penis size, either on their profile or in a private message. I know this topic has got discussed on this and other PUA forums and always will be, but haven't seen it discussed with women online. I haven't field tested this, but based on some forum comments other guys made, I made up the reply below, that I'd use. It's part funny, part serious. Can you please tell me if you think it's good, bad, or if you'd suggest modifying or deleting anything, if you reckon it's a bit too long, or doesn't create attraction.

'I have 2 responses to penis size requests like yours. The funny one, is my dick is so ridiculously tiny, you'll need to bring over a microscope and find out, or it's so big it'll probably split your insides in half, if we have sex.
The serious one is :
1) sex isn't about a guy thrusting away mindlessly with just his dick inside your vagina, as it's technique that really matters.
2) my penis size is big enough to make you have a funny walk, the morning after we do it.
3) your G Spot is only a few inches into your vagina and the most sensitive parts are around that depth'.

someone said david deangelo is a conman... no no no! david deangelo is a legend, he has compressed the best information and best pick up artists possible into his shows and i credit his help for alot of my newfound success. the guy who said that, please take the time to watch more of his stuff.

and i agree KL70. in person you can break away alot of preconceptions that chics have on the net. i randomly saw a girl in a club, got with her, and realised she was someone who wouldnt add me on oasis beforehand (but later did) so yeh it is like that. id say just use cocky funny and dont mention your height until she is already enthralled by you. its funny how what chics want, changes as soon as theyve magicly found themselves attracted to a guy who isnt there "type"

Same to you sir.
I'm a guy who is 6'2 so I have dated many tall women who fall into the category of "I only want a guy taller than blah blah bla..." I can tell you without question these women date guys shorter all the time. I personally have a friend we'll call her "M" for now. "M" states on her profile a guy must be taller than 5'11. Her last 3 boyfriends were under 5'9.

Don't get too hung up on this stuff guys. I'm sure there are some girls out there that are so picky that they will not message you back. I have no doubt there are some girls like that but once they realize they aren't getting any of them, which will happen, they'll fall back.

The thing about online stuff is you can't be overly picky. However, with the way dating sites are designed people put in profile preferences and in a way judge a book by it's cover. It sucks, but its the way it is.

Here is the thing. If she lists this 'requirement' of sorts in her profile but doesn't say anything to you about it specifically then don't bring it up. Don't make it a problem. Let her decide how big of a deal it is.

With your personality being conveyed through the words you write it most likely won't matter.

What if she brings it up? I can hear you saying this miles away. Then tell her how tall you are. You don't have to come up with some witty line or bust her balls about it, just tell her. If you make it out like it's a big deal then it becomes a big deal. If you act like it doesn't matter, most of the time it doesn't matter. This is a similar mindset to kino escalation.
Again, this is similar to the height thing. If you don't make it a big deal then it won't be. There are all kinds of cocky funny responses we could all sit here and come up with.

First of all, are we saying something to trigger this question? If you were to ask a question about bra size for example this might be a logical question back about your penis size. So this could be altogether avoidable.

Anyways, I would keep this simple. Be a 'gentleman' when you say the other stuff up there 1-3 it just seems like we're trying to hard to figure out something to say. Don't get me wrong they're funny but it's too try hard.

I would simply say, "Let's not go there."
OR "Woah...slow down. All I'm wanting for now is good conversation...for now." OR "A gentleman never tells."

There is no reason to get into it and keeping yourself a 'mystery' is part of the attraction. There is no reason to tell her this information even if we are going sexual in our conversation.

This should get you around these 'false' objections. Just make sure not to willingly bring it up. Most people can't remember half the stuff they have written in their profiles anyways. They tend to forget after a few weeks of being on the site.

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

You can break away a lot of misconceptions that women have while you are in person. As I pointed out to KL70 above you can do this online by simply avoiding the issue. Again, don't make it a big deal unless she brings it up during messaging and then handle it.

Just like in the example I gave above with "M" she dates short guys all the time and she's just one of the many tall girls I know that does that. Being 'taller' is a health indicator and helps, but isn't necessary. Style is a short guy and he does well for himself.

You guys don't have to use 'Cocky Funny' ball busting humor on everything. I agree that David D.'s method is good and I really like his stuff. However, it has it's place online but too early into a conversation with a girl and it can easily be mistaken for being insulting. The reason for that is she can't see your mannerisms and hear how you tell it.
Exactly!

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

hey i need an opinion about this. help me. how do i handle this kind of shit test?? i need to HOOK her. help me.

==========================================
Keith:
Hey, I don't think that this picture is really you. What, did you go to the mall and get one of those Glamour Shots done or something? Do you have a real picture?Like you at home raiding your fridge or something? Or do you even work out? OK, stop trying to fool all of us guys, and let's see what you REALLY look like...

Emily:
how the fuck are you?
==========================================

and i am thinking of giving a reply like this. tell me about it.
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you are hillarious. sort of.

omg!you are like a little power puff girl.too cute!u know the spiky one with thelittle attitude?the brunet.what wass her name?butternut? btw u cannot believe what happened to me! i was outside of this club, right, and there was this BIG guy outside with a Mohawk. And he was arguing with this preppy little guy over something, I didn't know what.
And all of a sudden, this Mohawk guy CLOCKS the other dude-hard!Not only does he punch the guy, but he follows with through with his elbows, so it was like a straight 1-2 hit!

And the guy who got punched just stands there for a minute, like his brain doesn't quiet realize what just happened, and falls straight back onto the concrete like he's stiff as a 2-by-4, and just lays there looking straight up into sky with his eyes wide open.

And everyone's looking at this just stunned . and this guy isn't moving, isn't blinking, and i am thinking "crap,he is fucking dead and i am a witness!"

i found ur profile as i was looking some old friends. i go to east lansing. how come i have never seen you?
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open to all critiques and also to a new opener. thank you.

LOL. About the time you were posting this here I was posting a response to your other thread.

this-opener-kind-f-sucks-vt35815.html?highlight

Any questions please let me know.

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Thanks Jon, I did have a lady bring up in her reply that she wants
guys over 6 foot and she said it in her profile, but I agree with your advice, that if some women are that super picky, don't worry about it and move on.