Hi all,

To give you a bit of background about me, I'm in my 30s and I've recently moved to London. I've never had much of an issue approaching and talking to girls and I try and incorporate some PUA stuff into my conversations and general behaviour, but it's not like I follow a strict process or anything. Perhaps more importantly, my job is as a stats and economics analyst and I'm always looking for ways to use this to my advantage in life.

Anyways, I've been trying my luck online via POF recently. I had a pretty good response rate but since I moved to London, this has plummetted. I started asking myself why. I was doing the same stuff as I had before, had the same photos of me looking nice etc. had some routines but I had a shocking response rate. We're talking very few responses. Not even from fat girls. Those that did, flaked.

So I did what any rational person would do... I created a profile as a girl to see what I was up against. Know thy enemy, know thyself. I picked a photo of an HB8 from another country, copied a separate profile and waited. I didn't have to wait long.

It's been less than 24 hours since I started my experiment and already I have 45+ unsolicited mails and 20 meet me requests. I'll probably have at least another 3 or 4 more in the time it's taken me to type this.

I've collated the results as best I can as follows:

Quantatative Stuff:

Messages that showed no evidence of having read the profile and had been copied and pasted: 39
Messages where there was some evidence of having read the profile but it was still a poor message: 8
Messages it was obvious that the person had read the profile and had made a proper reference to it: 1

Some other qualatative stuff:

Messages asking 'How are you/was your day/is your day/your weekend': 25
Messages saying 'You look nice/you're gorgeous/stunning etc.': 12
Messages asking for sex/NSA fun etc.: 3
Messages that were genuinely interesting or original: 1 (and that was borderline)

Now, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see a pattern here and I don't think I need to elaborate on that. But 50 messages in 24 hours? It might be reasonable to expect a girl to respond to and maintain a decent level of conversation with 5-7 guys at a time. If she's on POF for just a week, that's one guy for every 50 that contacts her. And even then, in order to respond to your messages she has to wade through a shit-ton of responses.

Some important things to note about this:

POF is free. I reckon there's far more guys on there than girls (probably as much as a 4:1 ratio). Other sites you pay for would likely have a far more productive ratio. That might be worth considering if you're serious about sarging online.

London (and indeed all other big cities) are highly competative environments with a lot of AFCs playing the numbers game. I don't think it's as bad in smaller cities and such (based upon my experience).

In any event, I hope this is of use to some on here and feel free to ask questions and discuss, offer advice/critiscism (of the analysis rather than my poor PUA skills!) and ideas for more experiments.

Excellent report. I'm in Denver and set up a female profile in another state/big city to study what successfully guys do. My results over the past few days have been very similar. I also respond to contacts to find their further conversation.

50 messages daily observation: at first it's cool to think you get 50 daily, but it quickly becomes a chore. Even better messages/profiles can easily, easily get lost. Women get wore out looking at so many options. This makes me think messages are like fishing or even fly fishing. You have to cast when the fish are up, hungry and biting. And like fly fishing, targeting fish specific baits cast at the right time will get a higher response rate than a common, generic message sent at an odd hour sitting getting stale while you wait for her to open / respond.

Copy & paste: messages are 90% generic. Everything you'd expect. So many: you're beautiful. You're stunning. You're sexy. You're striking. You have pretty (facial feature). We have so much in common (without mentioning anything). We're a match. Marry me. Lets get together (without building a demand first). Let me know if you're interested. I can treat you right. Sometimes if it's super obvious I'd write them back and say "I bet you copy & paste that to all the girls." They can't help but deny it.

Lost puppy / me too syndrome: so many guys are willing to do whatever without qualifying the female or generating interest or willing to comply without even being asked. Guys give out their phone number. Say they are available anytime. Fall into the "you like that, me too" habit. Very little challenging.

So much in common: a lot of guys say "we have so much in common". I'd right them back "like what". They'd say "everything in your profile" or "I really expect what you're looking for". One guy responded with "I'm a guy on here looking for someone. You're a girl on here. We're both looking for our best friend." Lame. That's only biologically in common. That guy even had a few interests that match he could've brought up but didn't even know to do that.

The long writers: some send a (generic) essay saying 10% you're beautiful, 90% about themselves. I've written a few back and just said "hi! ". And they write back with another essay! Even wrote one guy back saying, "you're overwhelming me". He got defensive and wrote another long essay!

Barrel of puppies: Surprisingly, most guys would reply within minutes of my message back to them. Granted its an HB9 but it makes them look needy. Like they are waiting right by the computer / checking their phone minute by minute. Even the extremely handsome well put together ones. They're like a barrel of puppies: open it up at anytime and there's always dozens available yelling, "pick me up. I love you. I need you. I want you unconditionally. Give me a treat!"

Some are a little less needy but I'll come back after a day and it's common to have two or three responses from the same guy eager as he's trying to spark a response.

I was having the same responses with a girl who might have been a 7 if the lighting was just right. The messages the other guys are sending are pretty bad. Do they use this same stuff in person? If so... how are they hooking up if copious amounts of alcohol aren't involved? It's all too easy! I'm having a 25% response rate (though nothing has materialized into "day 1's") with a simple opener with an A/B choice selection and sometimes pointing out something in their profile (but only if it really does interest me). My profile is sub-par (I REALLY need new photos), and I'm still probably in the top 5%.

On a weird encouraging note: most guys are clueless how to strike up a conversation or keep a girls interest which makes me feel better about my meager attempts.

Now onto what they're doing right.

I don't think that's weird at all! In fact, reading what the other guys were using/trying was a huge encouragement for me. Basically anything other than saying hello, introducing yourself, and complementing a picture puts you in the top 10% of PoF/OKCupid male users.

My last relationship actually started with someone I met on PoF. It lasted 16 months with a girl who was 10 years younger than me (I was 29 and bald; proud that I dated a 19/20 year old). The opener I used? "Should I grow a Dr. Phil style mustache."

That's awesome. I can get 21 year olds to respond to me (I'm 37) but they usually flake in then end.

Of the successful ones they fall into two camps:

1) super, amazingly handsome, adventurer serious guy
These guys have awesome photos from their many adventures. Shows their quality. Their profile text is straightforward with little humor, the "I don't have time for non-sense" / "you better be up to my standards" text. A paragraph or two. These guys are used to women contacting them it seems.

2) the refined, clever, regular handsome, pua schooled guy
This guy is handsome but not a model, knows how to work what he's got. His pics show him dressed up, on smaller adventures, and cool. There's girls in his photos but it's in the "girls are comfortable with me" and not a "I'm a creepy horn dog" kind of way. His text is loaded with clever/funny and knows how to draw out interest by entertaining. When he contacts a girl the message will be unique and out of the ordinary.

This was very helpful and super encouraging! Thank you for experimenting and posting your findings.
I'm a total noob but working my way up there.

I know I need to be more alpha in my emails to them and I just started doing that.

How do you qualify them in an email without sounding like a douche?

Unless you move that profile to your original location and see if the results change there's no way of knowing if its really the competition in london that's the problem or there's another factor at work.

Guys, I've been reading your posts and can see 100 ways you are going wrong in your strategy with women and online dating. With women, it's all about the profile - and not the email banter back and forth. Little things that you don't even notice in your profile can turn a woman on or off in an instant.

Sure - they'll chat with you just for the attention, but if you want real interest - you've gotta have a decent profile.

I've also been doing my own research - and have been dating online for a few years - and have decided that men's profiles were so BAD on so many levels I decided to start a business writing and editing online dating profiles for men.

Check out my site in sig and maybe I can help you out. Or just find Profile Diva on Facebook.

Get a woman's point of view on what attracts women online - not advice from other guys who are probably doing it wrong anyway.

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Profile Diva
http://www.profilediva.net