I couldn’t say if it is a shyness or self righteousness (usual character of Nice guys)…
I have problem with invading a girls personal space and like to go physically close to her and read IOI. But I could manage with hugging and normal kinos…
In some situations even after a “go ” signal I find difficult to put my arm around her waist or fingers in her jean pockets…
I get lot of questions “if it is right?” or “am I demoralizing her…” in my mind...
So I am sure this is not fear of rejection.
Guys, is it normal during the initial term of learning curve. If so how did you over come it?
This is creeping me because at this point I couldn’t play.. all I do is think about what I do… and eventually a slow failure.
Let me know if you have a sp. inner game technique at this point.

Well the worst the girl is gonna do is remove your hand or just say no. If so, punish, and repeat, or just back off until you feel like it is okay again later.

Good luck.

simple solution to your problem... if you feel like its weird to put your hand around her... you should first do the elbow touch... reach in to tell her something in private and hold her elbow or above the elbow on her tricep and back off... then hold her hand for a little bit and then back off...

NEG her and then move in and hug her and say "I don't care what everyone else thinks of you, I think you're okay" and she'll respond with "what is everyone else saying?" and that gives you another opening for a hug and say... "what else are they gonna say they're jealous of you and me" and just hold her and say I like your company but don't get any ideas okay? and if you feel like she's okay with you holding her then keep holding her but if you feel like she's still not leaning toward you or feels awkward... then back off again and make her move towards you....

you actually may be able to get away with a kiss close when she asks what everyone else is saying... say "who cares would you like to kiss me?" and then after making out you can hold her and take it from there...

-Swift One...

In regards to "demoralizing her", I actually had the same problem. Like you, I was/ am a decent guy. But in order to succeed with women, you have to be able to "go instinctual". This means that you have to be able to have the confidence to do what you want to do, when you want to do it. If you want to touch her, do it. If you want to kiss her, and you feel that the time is right, do it.

There is no "demoralizing her". Kino isn't turning her off of you, like stated above, the worst that can happen is she moves your hand and says no. In which case, you have to game a little more before trying again. Kino is a gift to the woman. You have to treat kino and set your "value level" up so that she sees kino as the best possible thing you can give her.

To overcome your "nice guyness", I suggest blocking out the logical part of your brain when talking to girls. I know this sounds dumb, but try it. There is no real logic when sarging. The only logic you need to know is what to do in certain situations. Allow your animal side to take control of the rest... at least to an extent.

Not sure if you guys get what I am trying to say, but I can try to clarify later if you need.

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-Love, Charity, and Esteem-

Touching when story-telling is good cos it gives you a reason, say if you are demonstrating something etc. It'll take a bit of getting used to sure, but eventually it'll feel right. Even start just touching any chick friends (in a friendly manner of course) to get over the initial fear.

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- Difference

What do you guys think of explain a certain situation of how girl keeps touching you as a way to use KINO.

Show her how the girl keeps touching (like a gentle touch of the hand) and what else you can think of. Ask her about it and everything? Could also be a DHV as well.

Thoughts?

-fuzz

I don't see why that can't work. It should do the trick. Just come up with some awesome C/F story or a huge DHV, say it was a model that was touching you or something.

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-Love, Charity, and Esteem-

That....is a very good idea.

There is a point in which being morally respectable turns into being morally stupid. I hope you can grasp what I'm trying to get across.

You are obviously a respectable person, who goes out of his way to live a moral lifestyle. If not, these questions wouldn't be running through your head while doing something as simple as putting your arm around her. Like you suggested, it may be because of being a "nice guy, or however you put it.

Listen...your not demoralizing her or doing anything wrong by touching her with a simple gesture of a hug or snag at her jeans. This is normal for people who are flirting, conversing, and socializing.

Wanna know what demoralizing her is? Slapping random girls asses, slipping roofies, saying "hey baby nice knockers!", touching her after she's made it clear she doens't like you, touching her in a harsh manner, spitting on her, insulting her directly, and other things of the manner. Touching her gently, is not.

Clear? Good.

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Amor est Vitae Essentia

This is a quite true.

Thanks! all the points were eye opening.

I also contemplated over this. and understood that
When feel it is demoralizing it means that I try to define her morals rules. (Which she must do it.)

so I have to go for it and she can reject it if she wants. then she defines it.

Now as earlier Apollo said I am trying to switch off the logical part of my brain durinig any converstaion with ladies.