Hey guys,

A while ago I started a thread in sticking points in which I accidentally portrayed myself as a dick because of poor choice of words. Anyway After one user had a go at me over objectification of women I had a long think about what exactly that means to me and how I can apply it to my current situation. Hopefully I can provoke some interesting discussion here on the topic because at the moment I cant really figure this one out myself.

So to start I am a 21 year old who just finished university and is currently working in Thailand, before all this Coup bullshit it was pretty much a dream place to work on my game.

Prior to learning about the game I was beyond hopeless, now I am at least capable of showing interest without shying away and on some occasions getting a bit further. Although I haven't had sex in a LONG time and its beginning to affect my confidence. Its been about 2 years now. prior to that it was 4.

My main problem for years has been not wanting to overstep boundaries, as I could not often (and still cannot often) tell what women want this leaves me in an odd position where often nothing happens. Although now at least I am beginning to meet people from back home who I may see again in the future.

Ok so that's me at the moment, I could go into more detail but I don't think you guys need to know the rest. Currently the issue I am having is establishing the correct attitude to take towards women. Whilst travelling I have witnessed a lot of successful 'pulls' by other guys and they all have one thing in common, they were all bros/lads and none of them seemingly treat the girls they get with well (at best I would call it sleazy). Its that fake kind of nice where if someone does it to you you instantly see through it, never-the-less these guys accomplish a lot acting as they do. Often I find myself having conversations with guys in this sense, all I can do is play along and pretend I am in on this global scheme that guys my age are planning to pretend to women that they are genuine. Then every so often you meet women who perfectly adhere to the slutty image guys try to imagine women are.

A good example of this is when I was over in Krabi for a week and I met a very nice Russian girl during a night out. My group wouldn't come and talk to her and her friends with me so I went in and talked to her a bit. As soon as I went back to my group another guy with us went and started chatting her up, they started playing pool and I went to support her and chat some more. Slightly later we exchanged Facebook names and she left with her friends. My plan at this point was to wait for her to add me and talk to her online the following day, sounds pretty standard?. Later that night the guy who had gone to talk to her and a friend of his found them on a beach and he made out with her, the next day she did add me on Facebook but as the guy had gloated about getting with her I said nothing. That night we went out and they got with each other most of the night, the following days they moved into a private room at the hostel we were staying at and to my knowledge they went travelling together. Everytime the guy talked to me about her I wanted to punch him in the face.

This is by no means an isolated incident, in this way I have learned throughout my life that the nice guy NEVER wins. Not when it comes to my generation.

So with all that in mind I have some discussion points I want to bring up with you guys.

[1] The difference between my generation and yours (once again I am 21), whether you believe this is real or my imagination.
[2] The correct attitude to take on nights out when intending on either quick sex or some short-term relationship (as a traveler who is working often other people will not stick around very long).
[3] What level of objectification does PUA entail? Think about it like this, by default learning PUA means practice, practice means testing something out on a large set of women, by default this results in some degree of objectification. Initial attraction and rating women is also pure objectification.

Please keep any discussion civil and non-aggressive. I appreciate criticism as long as its not coupled with insults or aggression. Currently I feel like I am missing some vital piece of the puzzle and I am hoping you guys can help me get back on track.