Im not a big fan of Ross Jeffries's techniques, I mean he is the godfather of the seduction community, of the PUA's, of all of us, and I'd say that we owe him EVERYTHING

However, I admire his philosophy, he is somewhat a non-so-polite guy, but he knows his deal, I read his writings such as "THE RIGHT PICK UP ATTITUDE" (which I recommend), and his emails in which he talks how when women show up last minute resistance or shit tests, they are calling for truth, desperate truth. I like that

However his NLP methods seem creepy to me, I can't picture myself saying those things to a woman. Im somewhat skeptical to his methods, I admit it, my game is more about C&F, natural game, and follow the structure of MM, maybe I use NLP, but not the type of NLP, such as the "Discovery Channel Pattern" or the "Blowjob pattern"

Isn't NLP about manipulating her to do something, about controlling her state of mind, if it's is IT'S JUST NOT ETHIC!

This is the main reason why I dont use it, it's NOT ETHIC

I want you guys' opinions

Who in here uses NLP and why? What about success ratio? Or have you seen someone else use it? Do you think it's ethical?

Thanks

_________________
www.pualifestyle.com/forum

I feel somewhat similar to this problem with it just being a little creepy to me as well. Really its all about doing whatever you feel is more comfortable to use when doing a PU. Personally i use basic NLP, anchoring pointing to myself when i say good things, using certain words and avoiding others. Beyond that i use light keno and tons of funny stories and DHV's ( and my striking looks haha), and at times depending on how i feel cold reading. Once i know they are absolutely in the C phases i step it up on the kino and create as much rapport while i keep moving on towards S steps.

Ethics and PU

This is a never ending topic to discuss.

In the case of using NLP as a technique in PU, I will take a Neutral position but I will be slightly more in the NLP side.

Here is my point:

We all know that when we communicate with a person only most of the things we are saying are said by Body Language and not the words that go out from our mouth.

Having this point clear I have to tell that some of the points of NLP is doing consciously things to get results.

Many great seducers and many successful persons use NLP without even notice they are using it. Arrogant people most of the time use imperative form of verbs while talking and this is a basic principle of NLP.

These days we see NLP everywhere , when you watch TV all the advertisements are full of basic merchandising techniques that use NLP.

Many but many persons while talking to a person they feel attracted use a much deeper voice and make some emphasis in clue words , without even noticing. Do it yourself, start talking in a slow deep tone and you will notice you sometimes pause and give certain emphasis in clue words, also a technique in NLP.

(The other day a HB was saying something like; I'm REALLY REALLY GOOD .... in school. I just started laughing because she was using NLP in me, without even knowing whats that.)

Lets go back a few years ago. NLP was discovered by two scientific that started studying why some therapists had more success than others therapists even tho they discuss the same topics and it was there, the therapists with some words and other actions trigger emotions in the clients that worked more, the result NLP.

In my opinion NLP is not as bad as it looks, but don't get me wrong... Yeah you manipulate a person mind, that is bad, but I have to agree that humans have been looking to manipulate each other since they knew each other.

I use some basics of NLP all tho I stay away of big patterns , but I have used some of them... (Discovery Channel and Instant Connection)

Talking about success rate, is hard to tell because its not like an immediate effect, but maybe I k- close because of the pattern , but hard to tell.

My idea of NLP;

I think that NLP is doing consciously things to get others attracted or feeling what we want them to feel. I have to admit that there are really good stuff of NLP that is really good and is just doing some things that for some people are things they do naturally, but in this case your being conscious about what your actually doing.

In the other hand you have the manipulate and creepy side of view of NLP, yeah I know the blow job pattern might be a big pattern that looks just like a manipulate system to get a girl to do you a BJ, Thats true and I totally agree.

NLP silently had changed the world for many persons, so I think we should be conscious about what we say what we do, as the same way we do with body language we get conscious that we are standing straight, etc...

But I do disagree on manipulating another person to do things they are against, because thats not the way we should do it.

In a nutshell some patterns and principles of NLP are really good and some are really bad because it is just a manipulation.


Success

_________________


My website: www.pualife.webs.com

New TWITTER account: http://twitter.com/xfman1

Facebook: xf_pua@hotmail.com

i really should be at work right now. but i sarged last night.

but i'll make this fast.

yeah it is kinda weird. but pick up is like cars. if you can find a way to tune a woman into being quicker why not? its not like you are slipping a drug into their drink.

cocky funny is the same thing. if you are being C&F and that was never really your style or personality. is the girl really likeing you or the way you are programing your self into her mind?
C&F seems to be the 101 and NLP is the 301 class.

either way you are not being natural, and you are getting into the woman's pshyci (sp)

_________________
For players, its survival of the smoothest. [tg]
If it works for you stick with it.

OK Mates, Here´s my point If view:

I tottaly sahre the IDea of Ross JEffries Being The god Father of SEduction BUt i Also Do AGree That His NLP Patterns are not also Creepy but also Un-Ethical at certain level WHy.

While Ross Jeffries GEts a Blow Job Just after performing a pattern A-Single-Hyper-Manipulative-Dirty Talking PAttern.

We PUA´s, rAFC or Wht U like to call Urself, we get a blow job after Running Different Routines, Cold REading, Rapport Building Technics, LMr technics
We still get Blowjobs just almost the same Way Ross JEffries Does, We also manipulate the situation on our ways, we also get unto women´s mind ina certain way.

Thats My Point, Its Like If u can not REsist against An Hypnotis,
The difference many of the times is that some use, Pendulating-CLoks and Others Words


And i Reapeat i also Think Many of his Ways Are un-Ethical.

Ok and now talking scpecificly and generaly about NLP i think is great, We use NLP all the time sometimes we dont even know it Just as Xf said NLP is everywhere.

Iven If u just understand primary NLP that can help Ur GAme bigtime.


and about what romeo7said well in my Case is that i USe all the time C&F
, Juggler´s rapport technics, and almost and mainly MM.

But I add NLP to as much routines i can.Not of my routines got NLp and not all the times is very Direct But We all now It helps Right?

I Discovered NLP long long Time ago, before i ever knew about the Society and when i was about 15 I designed a PLaque With a phrase on it.
Now years later i have it, it says:

I CAN BEND YOUR MIND

The difference Mates is the method, But we all get into girl´s minds Just the meth is different

Cheers

_________________
Que le digo a la muerte, tantas veces llamada a mi lado,
que al cabo se ha vuelto mi hermana?

-"I Can Bend Your Mind"- Sovnarkom

Xfman and Sovnarkom

Thank you guys for taking the time to write such nice and well written posts, I appreciate it

Now moving on, I remember reading one of RJ's email, one of his very first emails I believe, it read almost exactly as this "So what if NLP is manipulative, if you think about it, Women manipulate man all the time! always!, so it's time for them to see what it feels like" As I read this, I couldn't believe it, my first impression was that the guy was just angry at the world, and ever since I just decided not to use any creepy NLP, specially not any of his patterns.

Although I havent searched for any specific definitions for NLP, I define it as the combination of words, voice tonality, and gestures to get a woman to imagine something.

I get women to imagine things OR to link them to ceratin things by using my body languaje

But I ceratinly don't get them to imagine sexual things through words,

But I wouldn't blame just RJ for it, hell, one of the most respect PUA's in the world does it, Hypnotica, and I do have hell of a lot of respect for this guy, maybe cause he doesn't attack other Gurus, Jeffries does and nastily.

Ok, im getting a lil off topic

It's not about RJ, it's about NLP

I guess it's fine

There are different levels of NLP, from just relating things to one another to hypnotize, which is of course UNETHICAL

I want more opinions

_________________
www.pualifestyle.com/forum