Are you an Alpha male or are you trying to look like an alpha male?

From my point of view there are 2 kinds of Pick up artist(RAFC->PUG) The two kinds of PUAs there is are...

The Player

Player may have a bad sound to it due to media etc. But for me this is what these PUAs are. They are funny people, who have the goal to either just go out and have a fun time with girls. Some have the goal to get laid, some have the goal to get kisses or phone numbers.

The "Don't want to be AFC anymore"

These are normal people who have read the game, they are sick of always running out of things to say and don't have a clue what to do around women. They have come here, determined that they will be able to change that. But what are their goals? For me it very often seems like their goals is to be able to show the girls what they are like, that they are very nice persons, without being rejected when they approach the women in a bar or McDonald's or whatever. These are guys who often want to find a girlfriend


To the discussion. There have been many threads here lately discussing this, with PUA community on one side and c_n12 (Chris ) on the other. The thread(s) have even got locked down because they created a discussion who just brings out anger and never actually discuss the matter. So here I will type my opinion of the matter.

The "fake" Alpha Males

Personally I love making people have a good time, no matter if I want to get them into bed or not. I love the idea of having "canned" material to just pop out if the set is starting to get cold or if i run out of "natural" material. I love having the tactics to do things without triggering the woman's safety shields. For me this is a perfect way for a night to "bypass" my AA and my overall inner AFC. This gives me an ability to suppress him, without the use of loads and yet again loads of alcohol.

Although, 70%+ of the things that is classed as "canned" material is actually a routine based on the way a real alpha male acts. You should fake disinterest, a real alpha male actually have a disinterest. The "tactics" tell you how you should FORCE yourself out of a set if she is not giving you the attention you want to have, even if you want to stick around. The real alpha male actually goes away because he don't care about her, if she don't care about him. He got other preys to chase.


The Real Alpha male

I have read around 170 pages of c_n12s e-book at the moment, the first part is mostly about how a alpha male thinks and why "you" don't think like this. And really all makes sense. When I have read this I have seen so many things, so many mysteries how things turned out in my life ( if it is about my own social life, or female friends attraction to "badboys") And it makes so much sense! I can't say this is true material, or that everything is true, because I haven't a Master in Psychology or anything. But for events in my life it is to 98% just to apply and solve the puzzle.

The alpha male is all about confidence - not caring about what others think, but at the same time respecting other peoples views on things. Even if you don't agree with them or will do as they say, you still respect their views.

So, How does this affect the PUA community in my opinion

For the Pick Up Artists

Not much actually. It could be good to read this and do apply some of it to yourself if you are having low confidence. If you want to "GAME = Play = have fun" I would say that Methods/canned material /ESP/NLP all of this stuff is great and you chould really stick to it. Although, you may even improve your game by using some of this Alphamale-stuff to gain confidence, if need.


For the AFC who wants girls

Hello! My Nickname is Chris T, I am an AFC. I got into PUAing because I would utterly fail when it came to girls and women, especially the hot once. I have very low confidence and often really take others opinions right into my heart. I thought that PUAing would help me gain confidence, but it haven't done that for me, at least not yet. I got handed some nice ways to drug down my inner AFC and pull on my "Game" mask, but that is it. My goals when I started out here was...

1. Get confidence
2. Be better with women
3. Overall improve my social life - talking to friends, people at work, people at the library, friends to my friends which i yet don't know.

How did this work out?

1. Not so much, i can suppress my AA, I've learned a few basic things to put away my inner AFC, but just temporary.
2. Indeed, i got my first KC in about 1.5 years with a shy B6 yesterday. So YEAH IT IS F*CKING GREAT!!
3. I can't go up to my boss and pull the cube, or guess a number from 1-10. I can't use a "dentalfloss opener" on the cute waitress at a coffeehouse (if i wanna sarge her, yeah ofc, but I am talking about just being confident and not to stutter when ordering a coffee)

How did it work out for the few days I started applying the "Real alpha male" psychology into my head?

1. I got some more confidence in a matter of days, I used a few basic things to make myself think in the area close to "What do I care about what he/she thinks. What Do i care what others think?"
2. Women, being confident is probably a very nice way, Haven't really tried it out. But from "theory craft" I've come up with the conclusion that being a real alpha male you will have a very good shot at the HB10s. but when it comes to HB11s and supermodels I think you need to have some "fun things" to say, not just the "don't give a crap about her" attitude, because these women are surrounded by "real" alpha males. How can you game Tom cruises date by being an Alpha male when Tom cruise is way more alpha male than you will ever be? The RULE in PUA is to be what everybody else is not, so gaming girls who are surrounded by alpha males can't be done by being a alpha male, because they are so used to it! You need to act like an alpha, but still somehow take it up a notch "Note, this is just my theory crafted opinion, don't put any thoughts to it and DON'T discuss it in this thread" I am an AFC, rembember..
3. Overall improve my social life, yeah it has done wonders. Before I was the dude who just stands behind my buddy when he talks to some of his friends that I don't know. Now i just think, I don't give a crap, lets find out if they are nice or not and start talking to them. I guess confidence goes hand in hand with this one.



I've talked to C_n12 about this and he says that you can't be a real alpha and still use canned material. And I think this is very true. But you can be good over halfway to becoming a real alpha and still use canned material, How you may ask?

Being a real 110% alpha means that you don't give a shit. Meaning that you won't use canned material to attract a girl, because you f'cking don't care if she is attracted to you or not. If she ain't, then it is her problem.

But I think you can use the Alpha way to think to become more confident, to become more attractive to girls, but still not go 100% of the way. Meaning you still care a bit and therefor have a fun time using canned material.


So what is the meaning with this post? - good question really

Basically my opinion is the following. If you are a PUA, then Canned materials and methods are great.

But for all of you AFCs out there who are here because You are looking for a girlfriend, a date, maybe a way to make friends. Or to overall improve your social life I would suggest that you check out material about how to become an alpha male instead. Boosting your confidence makes wonders when it comes to overall social life skills. But you say "But The cube/(Insert random routine here) is awesome" And I do agree. But if you are going for a relationship you can't learn routines how to fake being an alpha male, because it won't take more than 5 dates before you start to run out of "fake alpha material" and show of you inner AFC which will "kill" your relationship again.


A last thing. I would really appreciate if you could respect a few wishes from m. I would really like to not have this thread locked down due to meaningless discussions...

1. Don't go into discussions about that Methods are better than Real Alpha skills when it comes to pick up women, there are other "locked" threads there you can read up about that.
2. Don't discuss the part about gaming Tom Cruises date, that was just something that flew through my head, but that I still didn't want to erase. It is an opinion on an AFC, so don't discuss it


/Chris T

PS: The "Canned material I am referring to is everything you can find on this forum, more or less (Mostly been into Styles method (Stylelife) myself

Let the discussion begin!!! "insert evil laugh from Gladiator the movie here"

Never truer words spoken! If social interactions were analyzed, an ‘interaction pattern’ would emerge: the sharing of personal stories (funny, emotional, triumph over adversity, etc) - aka ‘canned’ material!

As for Chris T, no advertising in posts (it’s blatantly obvious what you are up to)! Also, the thread will be locked if you discriminatorily criticise other systems/methods. So, don’t! There are many guys that swear by MM, NLP, DeAngelo’s stuff, etc!

Lock the board if you wish (I noticed in my other thread you danced around avoiding answering the questions I proposed to you regarding true alpha males not caring what women think or changing their behavior to supplicate a woman in to liking them.)

Coincidentially the other other thread you referenced to in regards to locking my other thread was another thread which brought up the idea of direct mode-one behavior which leads me to question whether you just see any concept with goes against Mystery Method as slander.

As Fiction wrote in the previous thread I was not violating any rules and was not " flaming, name calling, or even trolling" I was bringing the Mystery Method's concepts in to question. Sounds like you're trying to speak for everyone to protect your views like a cult leader.
Forgive me but that while it is crticizing it is not descriminatory. I never denied these methods work; they do. It have not baltantly crticized other methods simply raised questions, issues and ideas questioning their effectivness which seems to have upset you.

discrimination: unfair SPAM of a person or group on the basis of prejudice.

I advanced exerience with the Mystery Method and have worked with most of the mainstream methods. I am by no means pre-judging. I have a high degree of experience having used whatever I am questioning. Moreover, I did not blatantly slander the method but raise logical issues which bring it's effectivness in to question. From the way you write it sounds like you're biased toward the Mystery Method and trying to protect it.

You replied by saying I missed an important point but didn't give a legitimate response to the questions I posed which makes me second guess whether or not you had a legitimate answer.

[quotethe sharing of personal stories (funny, emotional, triumph over adversity, etc) - aka ‘canned’ material![/quote]

None of this actually denotes canned material. Naturals don't think or analyze or alter their behavior. They are simply alpha at their core and their natural personality suffices to attract women.

Analyzing REAL social interactions you are almost certainly correct in saying an interaction but for the natural it is spontanious and it is what they feel like doing not a socially robotic thing they do to 100 different women.

As for is post here if you believe it is blatant advertising is my original correspondence through PM with Chris T:

"There is reason I don't do any 7 or 30 day refund crap and offer and unconditional return policy. It has never hurt me to do intelligent marketing but I want people to know at the same time that I stand behind what I sell 110% so that people put no risk on it.

I've always believed there's no harm in persuasive marketing as long as my products back it up and people have the final choice on whether the products were worth their while. The marketing is to get people to try my product but with no obligation if they feel ever felt unhappy with their descision to do so.

Thanks for dropping me a message and you are more than welcome to post a message on the forum. Why yould I be able to stop you? It's an open forum. [or so I thought]

To show you how much confidence I have in my materials I am going to propose an idea:

You have never read my materials and I have NO idea how you will respond. I'd be happy to send you a copy if you'd be willing to write an honest review on here; as long or short as is comfortable for you (good or bad) on if you felt the material was worthwhile."

As this is your forum I will certainly respect your wishes. If you want to take the "open" out of open forum than just say the word and like a Mystery Method cult I will prevent any information that could be disconfirming information. Just say the word and I will not question the Mystery Method further and will allow you in your power to control and limit what information or ideas are presented.

- Chris

You totally miss the point and your marketing angle sucks, IMO. Instead of attacking other systems/methods (you have heavily edited posts in your previous thread), simply describe the benefits of your system/method.

I have a lot of respect for your reply. I think I understand on better terms what you are saying. However when you said the review above was not an advertisment it was an independent opinion. It's no different than when someone reviews Double Your Dating or Mind of Mystery on this forum.

My marketing angle is not my first priority (I have enough money in my life elsewhere) and based on the results I've been getting I am never one to call anything impossible.

My first goal in doing this was to help people realize how simple and easy attracting women can be; I am very diturbed by people coming online to ask others how to behave to keep a woman interested in them. It was more of a project I wanted to undertake than anything else to reach people with new ideas and concepts that would truly allow them to be themselves and rule their own reality.

I have sought to work to make things as simple (wth some practice) for the average guy as it is for the natural; to use the raw mechanics of conversation to create an internal system that knows how to take whatever a person is talking about and allow them to know how to express it in an enteresting and entertaining way and along the way have brought the Mystery Method ideals in to question.

Socially I started out with nothing and was in this long before the internet communities were around. A lot of what I learned initially was from naturals and worked on from scratch and everything I talk about I have lived through but that's not to say I didn't give these methods an honest chance when they came along. Although not entirely the case, these guys know something is unnatural in their methods; they more often then not try to hide their training from the women in their lives.

That's what I am about.

- Chris

You have to realize that everything begins in one place: your brain. We were born designed to attract the opposite sex and everything we need is within us already and is merely being limited by our own beliefs. It doesn't begin with that cute girl by the bar, your wingman, me, opening 100 sets or any of that. It all begins and ends with that big pink mass in your forehead and your reality is just an extension of that.

For example, when you have approach anxiety it is not the situation you are in that is causing the anxiety but a stimulus which creates feelings with in your body; your own mind that is regulating your physical and emotional state and nothing outside of you is directly causing what you're feeling. You don't need to put yourself in any circumstances, situations, ect. to make yourself in to an alpha male. Before you go out into the world you need to first solve your problems from within at a core level.

You're naturally programmed to be an alpha male. Society damages this mindset from the moment a two year old has a ball taken away from him and gets sad because he lost it. The child begins to cry and feel sad over things which are outside of himself.

As with any imitation, imitating an alpha is not the same as being alpha. Cubic zirconium does not become a real diamond over time. Imitiation alphas learn on a principle of techniques such as negs, FTC, active disinterest, ect. which are not part of the real, honest alpha behavior. Imitation alpha behavior becomes reliant upon these techniques and concepts for success.

Showing active disinterest in a woman doesn't convert in to showing interest. If you go down this road (imitation) at the fork and master it than you must go all the way back to the beginning to go down the other road (real). You are learning to imitate alpha males by adapting your behavior to the situation by hiding interest. Alpha males dominate and make no excuses for what they want and although I can't say with 100% certainty I have yet to see one evolve in to the other.

If you work from within your own mind at a core level and change your behavior that way you will walk out bred for success and naturally confident and ready for success.

A man already has all the confidence he needs within himself and doesn't need situations to make him feel it. He has everything he needs within himself. You find your alpha from within and don't need anyone or anything else to create it, prove it or to go out the door to find circumstances or stuations to help you develop it.

I have worked with many people using these concepts and lived/cultivated them myself so I undoubtedly know that they work.

- Chris

Nonsense. While I would be a bit annoyed at c_n12 bashing other systems just because he wanted to hawk his wares, I think criticism of methods is crucial for the development of the community. Just think where the scientific community would be if theories were never attacked.

No one is disputing that most methods have valuable information, and that most systems have brought success to their followers, but to make a sweeping ban of any criticism of any system seems to do a dangerous amount of repression of intellectual freedom. And intellectual freedom--the freedom to talk over and argue about ideas--seems to be what they very notion of "forums" is all about.

Hows bout we keep the thread locking to a bare minimum, reserved only for obvious flamewars and/or trolling, plz. Just a suggestion.

_________________
Lo' there do I see My Father.
Lo' there do I see the line of My People, back to the beginning.
Lo' they do call to me, they bid me take my place among them.
in the Halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever.

Such rubbish! There is no 'sweeping ban'! As I’ve reiterated numerous times, discussion of any system/method is fine. Unjustly criticizing popular systems/methods is unacceptable! He crossed the line so I intervened.

FYI, this forum is private property and as such freedom of speech is limited by forum rules. Forum rules exist in order to ensure the smooth running of the forum and provide maximum value to members. If a few members are unhappy with them, they can leave!

To the OP:
What you are criticizing is not what a PUA is all about. You are basically assuming that PUAs are all about Outer Game and that Outer Game and Inner Game are mutually exclusive. This is not the case.

Imagine if a cool guy had the genuine alpha mindset you are describing... AND all of the canned pickup routines and games at his arsenal, and he would use them to have some real FUN.

THAT'S a real PUA.

I've always advocated developing Inner Game before going into all the Outer Game stuff. If you want to learn how to be a solid PUA like this, you should totally buy my book. CLICK HERE TO BUY MY BOOK (not an actual link)

I will agree to the notion that a PUA using Outer Game while lacking Inner Game is totally weaksauce, and that most guys in the community are like this; they're attracted to the shiny, flashy cool tricks that make pickup look cool. If anyone's practiced any other discipline before, such as martial arts, they would know that you need to master the boring basics before attempting any flashy tricks. The basics = your mental frame = Inner Game.

Yes, being a "real alpha" (having Inner Game) is VERY important, but that's where the routines came from in the first place. The guys who made these routines made them out of their own alpha creativity. We're playing the game to have fun while improving ourselves, and canned material offers one piece of the puzzle for it. It has it's place.

While I agree with most of what was said the issue is that a true alpha wouldn't excuse his talking to a woman with opinion opener, negs, FTCs, ect. He would be a leader who would dominate his reality and make no apologies for his desires as a man.

- Chris

A true PUA doesn't use these techniques as an EXCUSE. He uses these as tools (sometimes just experimentally) to express his best self.

I think the biggest problem and the resons your posts are locked is because you tend to advertise these e-books so much...... Now, I am not saying its wrong, but at the end of the day this forum is free for the most part and has changed SO many peoples lives and therefore its good. Now u might not agree with MM etc but i think your missing something about ur whole acting thing......

A true actor and i mean some1 who is really convincing isnt an actor. They become that person. I took a drama course and one of the fundermental things we learn is a technique known as "emotional memorys". It works very simply, how can you possible convince people your sad any better than actually being sad? you cant. The same applies to this so called acting alpha. The people who are successful with it likely start off acting badly. By chance they get it right. Then that memory will be recalled when they next try to be a PUA etc etc. Eventually they act it so much they are constantly in character, or rather themselves.
Now dont rush to complain about these people, I woud place money you have changed your behaviour for some situations, ever been to a funeral for some1 you didnt like? bet u didnt sit there telling every1 how they were such a bastard did u now......
As humans, WE LEARN BY IMMITATION! How do children learn to speak? actually, this is an amazing way to look at it.
Comparing AFC ----> PUA to a child learning to speak....
First you copy the basics (the child makes noises, crying etc etc). Secondly you learn the material (the child starts to make different noices depending on what they want) then the AFC makes the material his own, therefore alpha (a child understands each words and can make their own sentances.) Therefore, you cannot say the people who learn to be alpha by coping are fake, they have to learn.

And anyways, back on to how you think brad is unfair locking ur topics, you are advertising the e-books. And this forum is owned privetly and is designed to make money... thus that privet section above also he is designing that new website thingy for people to pay for. Now like it or not, this place exists to make money, you dont see say a ford dealer with mazda adverts in it now do you ...........

/madals

You misunderstand. I'm not even talking about tools, lines, games, ect. A true alpha males don't excuse why they are talking to a woman by pretending that they are just making conversation or that they are disinterested. Alpha males know they are men, they see a woman they want, know it and approach her with no excuses or apologies for their desires that is an alpha male. Their core confidence represents all the value they need to acquire a woman's interest. They provide proof they stand up for what they want and can be a protector and and give her comfort and security.
To the best of my knowledge I haven't advertised my ebook (aside from the signautre which I have seen no rule listed against and a few others doing) so much as question and perhaps undermind the logic and effectiveness of the Mystery Method by questioning what constitutes a true alpha male.

As for the review there are other people who have written independent reviews of products on this site and have yet to be reprimanded or questioned for it and I do not see how my ebook having an independent on this forum is any different.

Would a "True Pitcher" throw a Curve? Or would he always throw a fastball?

Would a "True Basketball Player" take a lay-up? Or is he only allowed to dunk?

There is more then 1 way to skin a cat. I have not read your book so I can't speak to your method, but I noticed you mentioned Mode 1, and you seem to be a strong advocate for direct game.

IMO direct game is great, I tend to be very direct at times... getting straight to it can often be a great solution. I also do many things that would be considered indirect game, often times I talk to women who I would consider closing in some way without being very direct at all.

Being an alpha is more about motivation then methods... and more about intent then results.

I agree with Chief, build your 'inner game'... when your inner game is sufficent it really doesnt matter if you go direct or indirect... women will want you and you'll know it... Hell you hardly even need "game" anymore at this point, women will be able to sense your high level of value and will practically pick you up (some will completely).

An Alpha male is self sufficient and well adjusted... He uses indirect game because he wants to... or direct game. He doesn't worry about picking his target up... it's just a givin' in his mind that he will. He doesn't think that if she 'turns him down' she's the one missing out he KNOWS it. In fact he can't even be turned down because for him it's about the process, the closing is a givin... and due to this knowledge he knows he cannot fail because it is all his choice... and therefore he is virtually fearless... That IMO is an alpha male.

I agree heartily with Doc about there being more than one way to be an Alpha Male. Just because you deem yourself an Alpha and you percieve yourself to be one such way, doesn't mean that every other Alpha Male out there is that same such way.

My step-father is an Alpha Male and when talking to people, I often witness him using indirect conversations in order to get what he wants, it is highly effective for him because he has incredible tact. Sometimes I see him use direct confrontation of whatever it is he wants and that works too. If he can make either work and if he is an Alpha Male, then why should he care about the opinion of anyone that says being indirect isn't Alpha, cause he's confident enough in himself that he knows he can go about things whatever way he thinks will work best, as well as being more enjoyable to him.

Sometimes I like direct game, but I personally find it to defeat half the fun of the interaction. I love to play around, I like a good intelligent banter (even if the basis for the conversation is completely ridiculous) and so by running indirect game, I can evaluate whether a girl meets my standards or not. I'm Alpha enough that I tell girls that want to cut straight to the finish that they're boring and I'd rather play the games.

Are you gonna tell me that because you've found out who you are, you feel the need to enforce that same ideal upon other people? That unless I start telling girls straight up that I want to sleep with them, I'm not an Alpha, because an Alpha HAS to do things YOUR way? You're not an Alpha then, you're an Alpha Omega and you just wanna dominate everyone else.

I'm not naive enough to believe that an Alpha Male is required to see the value in another person's words, or even respect them. An Alpha Male can take all sorts of forms, from the guy that no one likes, but follows because he doesn't care about anyone else, all he cares about is himself; to the guy that everyone loves because he cares for and protects them above even himself. That's a pretty wide spectrum, so I'm sure we can find room to fit all sorts of different personalities in.

I'm an Alpha Male. Always have been, long before getting into this pickup. Just because I was an Alpha didn't mean I was the most effective one, or that I was good with women, just that I'm the leader of the pack and if no one else wants to do what I want, well screw it, I'll do it anyways because I believe I'm doing the right thing.

Many men will tell you that it is not an Alpha thing to tell a girl how you feel about her, but I disagree, because Willingness to Emote is one of the 4 main attraction switches and I choose to go about things in a different manner than most PUAs. I don't give a shit whether they agree, cause I get the results I desire from my methods and I do it all for me, not to look good to other PUAs, or to make girls happy, cause if they aren't interested, then that's their loss.

Pretty sure that's the response everyone can agree an Alpha Male would give, but just because I prefer indirect instead of direct, because YOU prefer direct over indirect, you say that I can't be an Alpha, you say anyone running indirect isn't Alpha and that's ludicrous. I hope you realise that your argument is flawed.[/u]

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

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