A heavily debated issue in pick-up: is the Mystery Method and mainstream pick-up fake? Have you ever gone fishing and caught a fish by dangling a reflective, metallic, plastic lure to attract the fish; this is essentially what mainstream pickup is teaching.

This is most notably characterized by Mystery's peacocking technique. do I like this idea? yeah, actually I think it's a really good one IF IT'S YOU. I have for years been going out in Coors Light pajamas at 7AM in the morning and been known to wear a blue ocean rock necklace. Do I do it to get women? Hell no! If I was doing that I would be trying to supplicate a woman in to liking me; I do it because I like it; It's me.

Another popular thing to do is utilize techniques such as cold reading, palm reading, ESP tricks and the most popular of all seduction games: The Cube. Again you are trying to supplicate a woman in to liking you and avoiding being yourself. It's typical AFC thinking, "If I do this stuff she will like me." The only difference between the AFCs and PUAs is that the stuff the PUAs are doing works but are they supplicating the women any less? These techniques band-aid problems with women instead of fixing them.

Now this may all sound well and good but there is one major problem with these techniques. Like anything else involving lying you have to put enormous effort into supplicating someone in to believing the lie you have created. Like a piano player who only learned to read music but never compose on their own, once you run out of songs (material) you can't do shit with a piano (woman) anymore.

An excellent example of how a pick-up artist puts on a fake display is seen in the book The Game. The PUAs (Mystery, Style, ect.) show alpha behavior and attract women but did you notice that not one of them could maintain a happy relationship? If they had such healthy and fulfilling relationships and were truly dominant alpha males why did Mystery end up checking in to a loony bin or end up crying on the floor of his mansion being suicidan, pill-popping and potentially homocidal for days on end every time his relationships failed (which usually ended with the women leaving HIM). He knew how to fake alpha behavior but didn't know how to act as a REAL alpha male who made no apologies and took what he wanted.

Mystery Method pick-up artists simply mimic real alpha males. Like any other magic trick of Mystery's it looks amazing and real on the surface but when you strip away all the smoke and mirrors a Mystery Method pick-up artist is nothing more than an AFC underneath.

- Chris

I agree to a point what you said with peacocking theory.

Although, having read the Mystery Method, it teaches you that, yes using canned material is okay to get started and to have some things. It also teaches you that you need to create your own material so that it is congruent with your identity, and not lying! It also teaches you to be honorable and to live with integrity.

The example of Mystery having mental health problems at some points during the game is in no way reflective of the method. I know many guys who have used this method to attract quality women, and have happy relationships.

I agree you are mimicing alpha male characteristics. For those of us who haven't developed these on our own though social interaction these things help. I can tell you that the Mystery Method is very real, and works! It works so well that other guru's follow his M3 Model. My own results convinced me, and of course learning the results of others, including ones I've helped teach this method too.

Remember also the book the game is grounded in facts but is the work of one man Neil Strauss. Although, I like the book there are composite characters and others things that skew the reality of what happened, in addition to crunching down the time line, as many authors do.

Mystery's easy to bash since he's at the top of the chain and likely will never read this post. Being at the top of your game has those consequences to fame. I can appreciate the point of arguement but the results speak for themselves which are thousands of satisfied men around the world.

Then again, if I was you teaching some new technique to men too then I would probably knock Mystery Method too.

PEACE & LOVE

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

Really? And you've conducted "randomised, double blind, placebo-controlled trials" to support your assertion that all Mystery's students are AFCs or fake? Or is your comment without any foundation whatsoever (a mere opinion)?

I used Mystery Method for roughly two years and have developed a solid that has gotten me laid on numerous occasions. I know the theory and applications of the M3 model. I don't deny that it works but it does not create real alpha men; it creates a cloaking persona that creates the illusion of an attractive man. It is not a man who is attractive at his core.

Thousands of people come on this forum asking, "should I neg her?", "how long should I wait to call?", "did I show too much interest?" A man who asks these things is trying to create the illusion that he is attractive because he feels that his own behavior wouldn't maintain a woman's interest and he needs to be told how to modify his behavior in order to supplicate a woman in to being attracted to him. He is afraid of losing a woman which is also beta.

Is asking other people how to behave something a man who was a real, truly confident alpha at his core would need to ask? The naturals I have met don't plan their behavior it is who they are and their behavior is spontaneous.

If you took a Mystery Method PUA out and told them to attract a woman without using any opinion openers, negs, DHV stories, false time constraints, active disinterest, befriending AMOGs or fat chicks with the ulterior motive of getting to the woman could they do more than an AFC?

That means they walk in with no excuses or apologies for there desires as a man or hiding what they want from her. The person gets a woman using nothing but their real personality (no memorized routines, games, ect.)

Would this Mystery Method PUA still be able to attract women if his techniques were stripped; would his real, genuine core alpha personality be enough as it would for a natural where he wouldn't need to plan what to say or how to behave because he IS alpha at his core?

- Chris

I think you miss an important point, if it works for them and they are comfortable with it, then so be it. Likewise with NLP.

While I fully agree that people do things which work for them people are naturally prone to sticking with what they're comfortable with because it works for them and I don't deny that Mystery Method works; it does.

It's really a question of whether the person wants to be comfortable or achieve their full potential by learning to be fearless and unaffected by what others think or their circumstances and just enjoying things rather than having to analyze them to achieve their goals.

Very few Mystery Method students I have met are truly fearless alpha males who are unaffected by what happens to them and will just walk in independently, take risks and make things happen without worrying about the outcome with the whole "I dominate my reality; I see something I want and walk in and take it" mentality.

- Chris

Ok, where do all these fake puas and afcs go to be "comfortable or achieve their full potential by learning to be fearless and unaffected by what others think or their circumstances and just enjoying things rather than having to analyze them to achieve their goals"?

Get your ego out of the equation. Remove fear of judgement, failiure, rejection, social pressure, ect. This is why Mystery Method can never evolve in to a real alpha male because the Mystery Method user is adapting to his reality instead of dominating it with indirect openers, AMOG befriending, ect.

While Mystery Method is creating a persona (fake disinterest, intentional peacocking, negging, ect) an alpha male inversely is free of the need for a persona and can be himself wherever he goes and doesn't change for anyone. He doesn't try to prove himeslf to anyone and doesn't accompany reality by submitting to methods or techinques to get a woman by playing by the rules.

An alpha male wants something he walks in and takes it with no excuses or apologies.

- Chris

Ok, where do I sign-up to “Remove fear of judgement, failiure, rejection, social pressure, ect.”?

You’re talking idealism! I somehow doubt you have a solution to “Remove fear of judgement, failiure, rejection, social pressure, ect.”

So, unless you give a practical response, this thread is being locked, as it's going no-where!

I personally like to think more along the lines of, "wow this guy claims to have a solution to removing inner fears, I don't think this could work but I'm really curious to hear what he has to say and try it because you never know how something could improve your life unless you give it a chance." but I suppose the more pessimistic, "You’re talking idealism! I somehow doubt you have a solution to “Remove fear of judgement, failiure, rejection, social pressure, ect.” works too if you're content with such a view.

It's very interesting what you seemed to attempt to do...using power for threats and intimidation. I either meet your standards wherein if I gave a response that you objectively deem pointless and you alone would decide it irrelevant you make a decision for everyone. I rather liked you're threatening and controlling exclamation point as if to point out your power and authority to assert your opinion as the correct one as well as the slightly arrogant sarcasm/pessimism of "where do I sign up?".

If you want to lock this thread feel free but offer what I am about tell you fair chance before you decide it irrelevant.

On the other hand however I would have your doubts as well (I did in fact) if I had not seen and experienced these techniques working.

There is no quick fix but there are ways to do it. Every fear of judgement, failiure, rejection, social pressure, worthlessness, ect. exists for a reason within you; each has an unconcious belief attached to it. I have worked with techniques for such things for a while as I was not satisfied with the lack of control over my emotions I once experienced.

When you experience a situation of fear of judgement in the present your brain unconsiously accesses similar past events and the emotions attached to them per the ego state as defense mechanism because you were hurt the first time and your brain believes by flooding you with emotions to prevent you from experiencing the same pain (such as approaching a woman again) the second time it is protecting you. Like condoms on a penis during sex it doesn't know that you now are satisfied approaching women and believes it is protecting you just as your body during sex believes you are trying to reproduce.

I'm going to email (because of it's length of explanation) a technique I would like you to give an honest and fair chance to. Know however that this techinque not going to overhaul all your fears overnight. It's effectiveness will be obvious to you in short term but you have to be willing to stick with it to truly maximize it's effectivness (I.E you can remove one issue quickly but it takes time to remove more). It can be used for any number of things but for my purposes and the purposes of people I have taught it to it is most commonly used to treat approach anxiety.

You will see the effectivness of the technique to a degree after a short while and with time you can neutralize your fears and limiting beliefs and remove most of your inner emotional issues.

- Chris

What the fuck?

That is the worst thing I've ever heard a admin say. There is no flaming, name calling, or even trolling. No rules violation at any time. This is a legitimate thread, and while you may dispute it or even think he is a poor arguer or idealist, I am shocked that you would even suggest that you would lock it. Let the discussion speak for itself.

_________________
Lo' there do I see My Father.
Lo' there do I see the line of My People, back to the beginning.
Lo' they do call to me, they bid me take my place among them.
in the Halls of Valhalla, where the brave may live forever.

Nonsense! If you bother to search the forum, you'll find similar threads locked for good reason! Check out “Mode 1”!

Personally, I believe Mystery has contributed hugely to the PUA community, and perhaps even defined it. This forum is independent of any system or method. If members find a particular method/system effective for them, then great! But, for someone to unjustly criticize the entire PU arts, which has benefited 100,000s of guys, is pure bullshit, and it won’t wash here.

This forum is privately owned and moderated accordingly. Thread locked!