New guys always come on here and one of the first things they want to know is this; Do looks matter?

What usually happens is a multitude of guys post a wide range of opinions on here and the post breaks down into fighting and bickering. Instead of giving you my opinion on the subject I'm going to assume that you are smart enough to come to a conclusion for yourself.

Below you find pictures of legit dating coaches. If you want to see if looks matter its best to look at the guys who are pulling and fucking women.

How do I know which dating coaches are legit and which ones are frauds? In some cases I've seen some of these when they have came thru town doing bootcamps. In most cases, however, I cant be certain but I've been doing this for almost 10 years and by now I have a pretty good radar for legit guys. With that said, just because you may not see a particular dating coach on here that doesn't mean he may not be legit (but it could mean that) it could just mean I forgot about him or dont know about him.

After you look at the pics I will have you answer three questions to yourself. There are no right or wrong answers. Your answers will help you to decide once and for all if looks matters.


Mystery^


Neil Strauss^


Matador^


Hypnotica^


Gunwitch^


Tyler Durden^


Julian^


Jeffy^


Alex^


Brad^


Rob Judge^


Paul Janka^


Roosh V^


Swinggcat^


Steve Jabba^


Sinn^


Liam^


James Marshall^ (In the center)


Richard^


Adam Lyons^


Boytoy^


Chris^

Before you read any further answer the following three questions:

1) Do I think women would find the majority of the above dating coaches attractive?

2) Do I think women would find the majority of the above dating coaches average in looks?

3) Do I think women would find the majority of the above dating coaches ugly?

Once you have your answer you way read on.

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If you think the majority of women would find the above dating coaches attractive its reasonable to believe that looks do matter because if they dont then why aren't more dating coaches unattractive?

If you think the majority of women would find the above dating coaches average in looks its reasonable to believe that looks do play a somewhat important role in the pick up/seduction process because if they dont then why aren't more dating coaching unattractive?

If you think the majority of women would find the above dating coaches ugly then its reasonable to believe that looks do not matter because if they did why would so many ugly guys be pulling women?

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Looks don't matter as much as most guys think, but they count. It's a factor in attraction.

Men judge women MOSTLY by looks, but women judge men much more heuristically. So, even if you're ugly, you can still attract assloads of women if you're charming or if you have good game.

Also, no matter how ugly you are, it's something you can work on, too.

Guess who this is?



That's an older picture of Gambler/Richard La Ruina.

Gambler is a good example of how a guy can max out his looks. I'd like to point out that he didn't look like that pic you posted when he was getting laid tho

When it comes to looks, I perfer guys don't think of their genetics as absolutes but rather as a starting point. If a guy puts in the work, almost any guy can become at least average. Many will become good looking.

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heyya

I personally would fuck, most of those coaches exclusively based on their looks, if i was looking for one night stand, i wouldnt care at all how smart they r, how interesting etc, just that they look good, If they look good enough, it would be enough for one night stand..
In my opinion some of those MPUAS wouldnt get laid that much if they hadn't have the looks as they have.

TBH, most of guys on that list is either hot, either average looking, with few rare exceptions.

True. If you take almost any guy and give him a proper diet, show him how to use a gym, and how to dress and groom, they are going to be above average imo.

It's not different than a woman using makeup. There are women out there that go from 9 to 6 etc. depending on how they are dressed and how they have their makeup.

Scientific studies have shown that looks count for more in an environment like a club, so what you're saying aligns with that if you're looking for a ONS in the first place.

However, pickup is a form of direct marketing where a PUA can convince a woman to realize that she wants something when she might not have been looking for it in the first place. So, hypothetically, even if a guy isn't your type when it comes to looks, he can seduce you into having a ONS with him.

So, skill game is still more important to develop than looks but, yes, guys should still work on their looks to optimize their success rates.

Looks are way easier to max out than skills though. 100 hours in the gym and 100 in the club over the course of a year will do more for your success with women than 500 hours in the club and 0 in the gym. You can get your skin cleared up in about 6 months/year for $100-1,000 at most. You can fix your wardrobe for about $400 if you buy a sewing machine and spend a few hours fixing your crap, or about $1,000 if you want to use a tailor. Nice haircuts are maybe $200/year.

And another thing I've tried pointing out is that looks vary a lot in importance depending on where you fall. If a girl finds you physically repulsive, it does not matter what you do. You are sunk. Period.
Looks matter less and less, the better looking you are. There is a chasm between a 3 and a 5, but very little distance between an 8 and a 10. Once a girl can get turned on by looking at you, better looks don't help much.

Skills matter the absolute most for sort of nice looking guys. A guy who is a 6 may be able to consistently get 8+s(which includes 9s/10s). A guy who is a 5 is nearly hard capped at 7 and he'll be fighting tooth and nail to get an 8. A 4? That guy is not making it over a 6 and again, it's going to be an epic struggle to pull off. But once you become an 8, more looks don't help much.

An 8 guy with good skills is going to destroy a 10 guy with basic social skills. But a 4 with great skills is going to consistently lose to a 6 with basic social skills.

In essence, bad looks are nearly a killer. Average looks are a serious(yet overcomable) handicap for getting hot girls. Once you're objectively "hot", how hot barely matters at all.

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RSDTyler

This.

You are 100% right (but im sure a horde or near virgin men will show up and disagree with us)

One thing I'd like to point our for guys is this:
For some reason, a lot of times when I tell a guy that looks do matter he assumes I man that you have to be a male model to score attractive women. No, you just have to be what a woman would consider "fuckable." But yeah, you and I agree.

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Grooming and being well-dressed are important. Work with what you got and bring out your best features.

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Do looks matter?
It depends on how you are trying to define ''matter''.

if you ask,
Do women base their attraction of a guy off looks?
The answer is yes, both men and women prioritize physical appearance when it comes to judging how attractive someone is. Looks however are only a piece of the puzzle in regards to what makes someone attractive. What is attractive is almost entirely subjective from person to person. So generalizing what is and isn't attractive is very difficult to do since one person's turn on, is another person's turn off.

The real issue with these types of threads is how you are trying to quantify ''matter''. Being attractive to someone as apposed to convincing someone to sleep with you are two completely separate assets although one effects the other.

Do looks matter towards your pickup skill?
No, a good looking guy that sucks, sucks and an ugly guy that sucks, sucks. How good you are at cultivating relationships is a social skill and facing social obstacles that cause discomfort and anxiety also has very little to do with physical appearance.

The more physically attractive someone finds you, the more they will be open to the idea of sleeping with you. It will not really affect your skill so much to make that happen.

You have to also consider that women in general tend to be more picky then men. That is why it is considered a skill to seduce a woman. Even if you are physically attractive enough to be considered, a girl could still decide it is in her best interests to not sleep with you very easily based on factors that have nothing to do with physical appearance. However being too physically unattractive from someones point of view is almost always a deal breaker unless the person in question is sexually motivated by something unrelated to sexual attraction.

In my opinion, being physically attractive does not get you laid. Your ability to communicate with someone and cooperate with them until you mutually decide to sleep together is what results in getting laid. Being more physically attractive results in more opportunities to reach that end. More women are willing to give you a chance to try to build that sort of connection based on shallow qualifications, it doesn't ensure that a connection will be created. I find girls tend to be fairly passive in general also, and if you don't make it happen your self, it is highly unlikely a woman will take the initiative to do it for you due to social norms. Even if you are very good looking all you will get is attention and positive feedback, but if you can't read the signs and can't make it happen due to a lack of social skills then that is where it will end.

Lol, no.
I know fat people like to say this over and over, but there's actually very little in the way of subjectivity to looks.

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RSDTyler

There is a bell curve, sure. But a lot of the things that are entirely out of our control would qualify as subjective. Vast majority of the time, race, height, eye color, facial structure, that stuff isn't a big deal. Yeah, if you're four feet tall, way beyond the average, or 8 and a half feet towering over everyone, this may not hold quite as well. We all figured that out before anybody uses a midget as hyperbole to argue.

And ultimately yes, there is subjectivity. Some women prefer guys who are ripped, some guys who are lean, some guys who are thin, and some still guys who are fat. Some girls dig facial hair, some don't. Some girls want a guy suited up, some don't. Most guys who claim there is a single archetype that works for 99% of women are either A) not that good at this or B) are describing themselves, damn narcissists lol.

You just don't wanna get blown out in the first five seconds by looking repulsive in some way to the point where a girl would not want to be seen with you. If you get in decent shape, not super ripped just healthy and a little on the lean side, get a good haircut, brush your teeth, FLOSS, and wear clothes that don't have holes or stains and fit you well, you're good enough for the majority of girls to get your foot in the door.

Looks don't get you laid, but they do keep you from getting rejected.

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These hos ain't loyal

There may not be an archetype that works for %99, but there are oodles of combos that can ensure %99+ of attractive women will rule you out.

There is one singular truth that most guys in PUA will never admit. Looks are the single most important factor in whether a woman will be attracted to you or not. And if you're too fat/ugly/old for her, no amount of "value" or "game" is going to overcome it.

I agree with the concept of telling men that much of their physical attractiveness is fixable. I'm not one of the PUAHate guys who thinks you need to be an Adonis in order to attract women. But I don't like the opposite, where guys are set up with false expectations. The community has vastly overpreached "looks don't matter". I try to make the point that they do matter - a lot. And that you should be investing at least as much time and effort in your appearance as in your social development when you first start out.

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RSDTyler

Agree... It's good to be the whole package...

Plus being good looking is more static then your game... not everyone on top form all the time...

Don't give the fatties an excuse to stop dieting.