do you guys use negs with direct approaches. Usually i try to hint at other girls aka i have options and to talk a little trash/cocky funny, but sometimes I feel this isn't believable because you are approaching some one directly. Also, i might point out a fault in her in a causal way...

I ultimately I guess with direct approaches I'm conveying I'm interested, but I also think its important to convey that I might not like you. I want to play on that fear of me not liking her, or her losing me.

Any suggestions?

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Why? Just be cocky and funny and direct.

I am curious as well . . . why?

The goal isn't to play off of her fear, the goal is to get the girl. Even with a script, I don't think anybody can ever really hide their intentions. Of course. . . many chicks are into guys that toy with them emotionally but that's a different topic.

Both men and women are greatly motivated by the desire to validate their egos, to prove that they are good enough for this or that. Fear is the most dominant emotion in comparison to all others. When women have behaved most desperately towards me its been in situations where they wanted to prove that they could have me. I want to harness this power more.

Its not just about being a prize, but being a challenge. Some prizes are easy...

why would you neg after going direct, it makes no sense, you could act cocky/funny though this normally just comes off as asshole

direct is more about being bold, confident and sexual
not some shitty little pseudo validation game that is way too complex and it most likely mental masturbation/ bullshit

Just be cocky and funny with direct openers you be better off than trying to be a challenge right off the bat. As more than likely they will blow you off if you try this.

That's the point of the post, that when you go direct its not believable when you neg. That's the reason I want to tap other people's minds for a credible and effective way to neg. I want to neg more because women that want validation are the one's that act most desperately for you and as a personal preference I want to be chased. I want these women day dreaming about me, worrying about what to wear for me, worrying about what to say to me....I want to be Zeus. I want to be a sex god. I don't just want to pull girls. I want women absolutely crazy about me, blowing up my phone.

I think the only way to truly get that is to have a woman validating her ego for you, to play on a woman's fear of being unworthy of you. I think you just don't get how driving the fear of unworthiness is in our society. Sooo many people want to achieve things just to prove something to themselves. Perhaps, the greatest athlete ever Michael Jordan was propelled to greatness by a desire to prove himself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPiaoPCtkXk I think that shows just how power this fear of inadequacy is.

Ofcourse, there are other methods of attraction (these work). Pleasure. Showing Value, you know being a prize. More than a prize I want to be a challenge. However, I think the strongest motivator is fear.

You're not understanding the true purpose of a neg then. A neg is a way of disqualifying yourself as a potential suitor. And usually you only need to do this to really hot girls, 9s and 10s.

What you are wanting to do is qualify the woman. Which means getting her to prove her worthiness to you. This isn't typically accomplished by negging her. Though there is an aspect of belittling her in that process. You need to establish a frame in which she needs to seek your validation. Showing a lot of value (DHV) is one way of doing this, because she'll feel compelled to prove to you she is also smart, successful, clever,etc. This comes from The Game, which is using a curiosity frame. Asking her a bunch of questions, whether it be opinions or intelligence tests, will make her come up with answers she feels like you want to hear, or those which make her come across as smart, successful, clever, etc. It's kind of like the equivalent of when women make us jump through hoops or do shit tests. They are seeing if we will suplicate ourselves to them in order to show them we desire their approval. That is why a pua should always reject a woman's frame, then reverse it and make HER qualify herself to YOU.

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I'm pretty sure you're confusing the goal from the strategy. For reasons I might be able to guess but only you will know, you desire to neg(and not in the classical pick up sense) and you desire to make girls feel desperate. No need to play online psychology but it's might be worth your while to think about this a little bit. Who made you feel so desperate? Don't attempt to solve past issues by reliving it in the future. . .

Any how, back to the topic... as much as wannabe guru-master pua's might lead the community to believe otherwise, it's probably 90%+ your lifestyle and character that will lead girls to go crazy for you. Your verbal communication merely augments the reality that you live. And due to their personal history and psychological make-up, some chicks just happen to fall for low-level drug dealers. Some girls happen to fall for military guys. Others dig CEO, rock and rollers, etc . . . the interesting thing is that there are some common traits shared by successful military guys, ceo's, or rock and rollers. It's these common traits and common skillets that you'd naturally exude in conversation that would get girls to gravitate to you in conversation.

Now "neg", the strategy, is different from "neg-ative". The end goal is not to be neg-ative to her but to make her think, "Oh fuck, I want this guy so much but I'm not in his league. . . " - which in turn makes a girl do some crazy things on a night out. Telling her she has ugly shoes or the wrong dress really doesn't achieve this.

Successful people(those who've worked for success) are rarely negative to those he manages. He'll guide them, offer them support, encourage them . . . but the limitation of this positiveness usually lies in his time. He's simply too busy to hold his people's hands 24/7. So the way this works is a small glimpse of your World, followed by limitations due to your time/life. Another small glimpse of your World, followed by further limitations due to your time/life.

Some might mistake "showing a glimpse" of your life as showing off but that's not the way it works. If she tells you that she teaches 4th grade and you tell her, "Those kids probably don't even know how lucky they have it." - you are in fact demonstrating to her your position in life. . . this is a glimpse. But of course if you are in fact a person of some value, you'd know people . . .you'd have events, you'd be traveling. You'd have an answer for her social life, professional life. You'd have been to most places she'd have been + 100's more. . . and you'd demonstrate all of these things the way successful people often do. . . with "you sentences".

Inadequacy is probably more accurate than fear and attempting to create ^this dynamic artificially might work for a few hours on a night of drinking and lying.

+1. Great post.

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Good insight kasabi. In the end, this neg thing is just a frame the OP is using to game women. Like me, he probably feels inadequate in other areas of his life and uses this "neg frame" as a way to compensate for his lack of DHV. He's not trying to raise his value but instead lower other people's value. The rationale being that by comparison, he will appear better than them and they will need to seek his validation/approval.

It's probably an inferior strategy compared to others, but it can still work. I think that we have identified that now and OP can reflect on this and decide if its something he wants to continue pursuing, or perhaps alter his approach to the way he goes about gaming.

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thank you for your contributions to this forum

You guys have offered an appraisal on the good and the value of my method, but you have not given me suggestions on how to neg with the direct approach. More than a prize I want to be a challenge. Whatever you think of the reasons I want to do this and you must admit that it is advantageous to be the dominant person in your relationship.

Often, successful people are assholes. They are dictatorial and demanding hitler type personalities that drive the workers below them to countless hours of work. Also, these people are often incredibly rude, condescending and insulting to their employees. This is how its going down on Wall Street, this is how it works in Washington, and this is what happens in any major sports locker room...to an incredible degree people that are successful are driven by the need to validate themselves, to prove that they are good enough or better than others or to avoid being ridiculed. THats whats going on in the workplace guys, the fear of ridicule and being inadequate is used as motivation. That is why I used the Michael Jordan example, that the desire to prove himself...the fear of being inadequate motivated him to greatness.

I want to say this its not that I do not value myself... You can demonstrate all the value that you want to demostrate. You can be all that and a bag of chips, but if you are not a challenge you actually lose value. The desire to validate herself will make a girl act desperate for a lifetime...a lifetime.

I have always understood a neg to mean to use negative emotion to attract. The idea is not that you make the women feel like shit. The idea is not to lower her self-esteem. The idea is to flip the script and to be a challenge. to make her wonder I might not be able to get him. You know to get her pride involved and what is most clear because she is afraid of being inadequate she chases you and chases you desperately.

Now this can be achieve different ways. 1.) you demonstrate value and you show disinterest. 2.) You give her very little attention 3.) You tell her what to do 4.) You judge her 5.) you neg her.

This may sound bad because you are using negative emotion to get the girl to want you, but it works.Too many people only rely on positive emotion. You know there's the caraot and the stick. YOu know there are some teachers that you want to please because they compliment you and then there are the teachers that are critical and you want to prove themselves to them. I suppose one reason why this may sound bad to most is because it seems like you're preying on girls with low self-esteem and self-confidence because people without confidence can't help but to give in to negative pressure. But, these girls don't have a lack of confidence the have big egos, these HB10s...they have big egos and think that she should have any guy they want and when they can't they want to prove themselves they want to validate their ego

the interesting concept you have here is that a girl with a lot of self confidence and a high self esteem will react to her ego being challenged, when it is most likely to the contrary, a person (male or female) with a high level of self esteem and self confidence is in reality less likely to react to their ego being challenged as compared to someone with low self esteem who feels the need to prove themselves

when you ''neg'' a girl, you are simply qualifying her and setting the frame that she does not meet your standards

it is meant to come off as a qualification that she does not meet

example
''wow, your hair is so pretty, If you just got some hair extensions it would be perfect''

she just doesn't quite meet your standards, when you are being direct, your intentions and your standards should be genuine, if you are negging to ''demonstrate value''

this creates the assumption that you don't already believe that the girl is attracted and have to ''build attraction'' when naturally the assumption should already be there that she is attracted, and you should just be screening for your actual standards

instead of focusing on how to ''dis-qualify'' a girl, in order to gain a reaction, why not focus on your actual standards and be authentic?

the ''social value'' you project will be relative to the frame you are congruent with

you might be disappointed when a girl gets insecure and blows you out for negging her in order to get a specific reaction, when you could have just qualified her to your actual standards and just had the assumption that you were good enough to begin with, and if she didn't meet your standards, oh well, on to the next one

negging is not necessary at all, unless it is authentic and falls under the proper frame

trying to get a girl you don't actually have chemistry with to start reacting to you is a futile fight, maybe you can even sleep with her using routines and advanced tactics revolving around manipulation, but what sort of routines do you have thought out to maintain a marriage or to keep a girl for that matter?

if it isn't congruent how long can you maintain the charade?

if you truly value yourself, your true intentions and self will always be transparent through the frame you congruently project, no one can maintain an act forever

it would be interesting to see why you think this ^ is necessary, if you see value in yourself relative to the person you are approaching

Girls that try to get guys in order to prove themselves have high self-esteem because this is motivated by pride. Beautiful women are haughty; they feel like they are better than others and expect preferential SPAM because men kiss their asses. These women are not humble and just cannot accept someone not liking them. If they had low self-esteem they would merely accept that they can't get the guy. If they were more humble they would find a better way to relieve the emotion of feeling "slighted." Once, i read this book where three characters were having dinner: 1.) HB 10 2.) Hopeless AFC 3.)Mindgames Master. Undoubtely the Afc kept giving the girl attention while the other guy made it a point to not even look at the girl for the entire dinner and ofcourse feeling slighted the HB tried harder and harder to get his attention. Its not that the girl has low-self-esteem. It is just the way that she copes with the fear of inadequacy that is questionable. You may say because someone has the fear of inadequacy they are insecure. Honestly, everyone has the fear of inadequacy in my opinion, but they have been raised and socialized to cope and react to it differentyl. Many HBs react by trying to prove themselves.

Before I got involved in pick up, ofcourse I had a fear of girls so I would not even talk to girls I liked. I would ignore them. However, strangely enough I would find girls trying to talk to me. Some would proclaim they liked me to my face. Others would tell there friends. It was astonishing, but even more shocking was when I told them I felt the same way about them they completely lost interest because by telling this they lost the fear that I was unattainable. I was no longer a challenge. I observed this many times.

I suppose this would take a lifestyle change because when you like someone you would act like you don't. This would require discipline, but I think the more you practice it the better it gets.

what do you mean by using your standards?