If all you care about is getting laid, then you will never ever reach master level. When I'm single, each and every set that I open, I want to genuinely find out more about the girl, who made me curious. And if she doesn't live up to my standards, then she can have the hottest body in the world, she's not getting any... I'm on the field to have fun, to entertain myself, other people, and to meet possible mates. Not a predator that's just lurking around for his prey.

And no, I'm not saying I'm a master myself, I still have work to do, but at least I don't limit myself with speculations.

(Of course you don't want that if she turns you off for some reason during the conversation so there's that "testing" ofc)

Now I am curious... you don't play games? Hahaha :'D ...I don't believe you :/
And how to you create interest for your merchandise then? How do you sell? Just strike a conversation touch a bit and she's all steamy? I don't believe that shit unless you got money and looks of a model, are famous or hit on undesirables I wouldn't even look at ;P

Fun fact: last girl I texted with I acted "normal" which means I conversed with her almost like I converse with my friends, so "normal" you might say. Did it get her interested? Of course not.
I also remember doing texting completely different. I was just reminded of in a thread yesterday. Something in the lines of : cutting short responses, creating pressure in a way, creating a pull etc.
How normal is such a conversation?
It's not.
But it works. Of course that goes without saying. Yeah, see what you know hasn't much to do with "be a man" or "be yourself" it's acquired wisdom of the attraction code, a girl's buttons if you will.

No actually all you want is to get her into your bedroom and have her ride your cock and scream of pleasure. Did I mix up the term Pick-Up with "Dating Advice for the average joe"... I wonder _._

It's like playing on easy mode all the time and then after being an expert at level 1 calling yourself master of the game cause you learned to make these particular jumps blindfolded =P

Hellz yeah, that's what I want to learn seduction, not having a self-proclaimed expert tell me all you need is to "man up" and "be yourself" pff -_-
There's far not enough advice concerning real seduction on the forums.

I AM A MAN ALREADY! I AM CONFIDENT ALREADY! I CAN TALK TO WOMEN ALREADY! I WANT TO LEARN PICK UP GOD DAMMIT!

By the way: I could create a forum sock puppet in a flash that motivates people with absolute bullshit and advises them you couldn't tell the difference from a RSD guy or motivational trainer. If I should do that someday(I wont) to prove my point I'll name it "Mr. Real"

Normal guys sleep with hot girls. The myth is that to get and keep a hot girl you have to be this super alpha, preselected demi god. If you look at the guys 9's and 10's are dating, the majority of the time they're average guys. The problem I see with most guys in real life, is that they do creepy stuff and make big mistakes. By over trying to play cool, over negging, seeing shit tests everywhere, and answering normal questions weirdly.

Alot of "game" stuff in fact messes up your chances. The whole approach, approach, approach, always be in set thing is an example. A normal cool guy goes to the bar with buddies, laughs, has a good time and strikes up conversation with men and women. The PUA goes to the bar alone or with wings, splits up and approaches women. What is the subtext if even you have good game but you're approaching people? That you don't have friends so something must be wrong with you.

No, not for me. I'm done with meaningless sex. I don't understand how someone can have over 100 lays of just casual sex. Sex is better with emotions.

I do apologize tough if my initial statement came of as kinda rude to you. I can see where you come from and it's nothing wrong with that. But that's not what you get out of classical pick-up. If you aren't using it, then don't judge me for trying to learn it. I don't have the luxury of just getting a lay with having fun, flirting around and entertaining people. I don't intend to abuse my wisdom either though, it will probably help me to find a suitable mate as well in the end!
(As I said before, faking or lying is for idiots and afcs)

Honestly I don't care about becoming a master or anything, I've got nothing to prove. I just want to maximize the results and chances at the moment with a maximum efficient learning curve. And I wont learn anything from someone that tells me to "be yourself" or "real" for that matter as it says nothing about seduction nor of what is attractive to women. It's just a scam that feeds on the weak minded nothing more.

Ego, man. If a girl is attracted to you, you will eventually get laid. Some are easy, some are hard. I feel like you put pickup on a pedestal.

It's just pickup, but I don't blame you. I was like that too. First I couldn't get girls, then I wanted to become an mPUA and have lots of sex with different women. Now I just want a meaningful relationship. Yeah, you read that right. All my knowledge and hundreds and hundreds of interactions with women to eventually want a monogamous relationship, although I regret nothing. If I breakup with my girlfriend, I know I have options. I know what to do.

Now I understand why Neil Strauss said to get pickup handled as fast as possible. It's to get on with your life.

Hmm this "approach, approach, approach" line comes out of a scam book or video doesn't it. Let me guess, RSD? Sound like exactly that "now man up" philosophy crap...
What I personally try to get out of this is to be able to hit on the girls I see in my everyday routine on my way to work or during shopping etc. I've counted that I got about 0-5 opportunities EVERY day. And by that I mean girls that actually invite me to talk to them (my body language/hers aaaand smile)

As to your book, sorry but I don't think it will be a breakthrough. Anyone's "method" to affected by how old they are, their appearance, personality, venues they go to, type of women they like, time of the night/day etc. You could write a book for the socially stunted guys but the average and good looking guys will just say your shit doesn't work because they come off as assholes.

#1 Hellhound you are one of the guys that really help with knowledge and ideas thanks for that.

#2 I've had a revelation, I've found the formula everyone tells me doesn't exist all by myself =P
The truth why guys like Magic Man can't communicate what they really want to say is because they've already integrated the behavior pattern I am about to tell you into their being. I've written about that before.

Now I've realized and tested a little bit myself (I really don't have much time for this SPAM, sorry)and I think I can break down what you as aspiring PUA really need to know.

Certainly you've heard enough about how to "inner game" and how to "be alpha" and "outcome independent" etc.This is really important and hard to explain how to achieve, but it is the key element in how you seduce a girl. It is key because the girl is receiving signals from you the whole time, basically you lead the feelings/vibrations she feels what you transmit if you can mind cloud her good enough, look below for explanation.
(This is body language, reading, eye contact etc. read up or you are screwed ;D )

The human mating works like follows, you present yourself to a possible mate. She will either blow you off immediately because she senses your inferiority (by looks, outfit, vibration, the way you speak etc.)which makes not a suitable mate or she will take her time to test assert you for a possible pairing.

For a normal man this is purely luck based maybe he hits a switch maybe he doesn't.
A PUA however does the following he confuses the logical mind with his skill in communication, many angles can be taken here, it is a huge field in itself on how to what to say and what not to say.
(I can't get into detail here and no one on this board will explain or help you with this, so basically you are screwed, now man up :'D )
He then applies kino seduction aka escalation, some of the guys have written good guides on the steps which to take and when to take one back. He constantly clouds the logical mind of the target which makes her all touchy feely and forgetful about "her rules".
(Again find it yourself I am not google, if you can't find it yourself no one on this board is going to explain that or give you any tips for that, so basically again you are screwed XD )

However his time on a first approach is limited so the normal PUA will tell you to play it like a numbers game, because as the effect of the mind cloud wears of the girl often realizes that by "her rules" she can't see you again as you are a risk for her being a good girl.
In club game and other situations where a pull is possible the PUA basically uses the mind cloud until he gets her naked in his bed.

Text/Phone game is an extension of the mind clouding an attempt to overrule the girls logic to create attraction. And so on, mind cloud, touch, get laid. Easy. Learn the steps.
So why are most questions answered with "be a man" "confident" "alpha"? These are told to you as a newbie PUA so you wont keep your nights crying and play the numbers game instead of over-thinking and getting oneitis everytime you try to cloud a girls mind.

All basic question can be broken down to the code of behavior you have to follow, you get told the things above because no one will take the time to explain it to you and people tend to have different opinions about what the norm should be and what has worked for them, so from here on it's a calibration game.

I've found all the basic behavior codes and answers you don't get nowadays in the archives of this board. Yea some necro-poster killed a kitten for this knowledge so lets all take a moment of silence. If you have a question go to the years 2007/2008 or search for kasabis posts for example, you'll find very easy the posters that really took the time to write elaborate guides and gave the best tips in the past, just search.

Also don't try to create "productive threads" on this board I've seen it often enough that there are enough guys that will just tell off because,
A) They want to sell you something
B) They've learned the code so long ago that it IS NATURAL, BEING THEMSELVES to them hence they forgot that they learned it someday like you and me.
C) Residents of an internet community tend to see the forum as their turf so best would be for anyone that wants to learn together, come up with new ides etc. to find a quiet place on the board where the chances of someone turning up and blowing the thread full of his shit are minimized. ;P

Thanks for not reading TL;DR anyways and by the way I'd never started this topic if not posters XYZ blew their crap in the shit-test thread, thanks for that I'd never discovered it all if it weren't for you.

Regards

Cyber

There's no "clouding a girls mind" numb nuts. That's why I said, field test the shit you're sitting here reading like a fucking nerd before you make assumptions. Reading posts all day, you won't ever figure the shit out.

Making a girl horny is not "clouding her mind." There's really no "manipulation" involved. There are cases where you need to switch off the girls logical side of her brain (example when you encounter the over used term of "shit tests" like where she says no to something or doesn't want to come home with you.) but that is just part of the "game." That's really what "game" is. How good you are at making the shit happen (aka getting laid) when it can.

The reason the whole "pick up artist" thing is fucking retarded is people look like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRRAE_GCGuY

when they try and be "pick up artists." If you want to really learn this shit, learn how to be good with women... Learn how to make women laugh, make them cry, learn how to make them horny, make them feel something... learn how people's emotions work. You see, its not only your arrogance that is holding you back from being a troll who lurks around on forums all day, but its your ignorance.

You just don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And you don't know it because you won't go out and try it for yourself. You'd rather sit around and read Kasabi's posts from 2007. (no offense to Kasabi by the way) The new posts are going to be the streamlined to give you (the new student) the quickest way to learn this shit. Here's what I don't think you understand... this is a help forum. Yes, there are people who offer products or services on here. But you seem to think that the only way we are going to help someone is if they pay. Or You're wrong.

I originally posted this on a different thread but in hindsight, I think that this is a different topic altogether. I recently shared a chat with 'storyteller' (not his real handle. Here's his plight:

1. He likes a girl.
2. He TELLS his friends he likes this girl.
3. He TELLS the girl, “You know how I feel about you right?”
4. The girl obviously gets skittish. The boy obviously feels disappointed.
5. He reads a few lines out of random pick up material.
6. Now he wants to tell girl a bunch of PU bs then finish with, "So let's go grab a smoothie. You're treating."
7. BUT, he doesn't follow through with #6 because his intuition tells him that #6 is bs + the fact that he feels its bs only adds to his approach anxiety.

Those who've read a few posts here will know that ^this is a common theme. It seems that most guys carry crazy caveman like desires to share his "likes" with whomever is standing in front of them. Examples: Caveman Bongo like fast car. Bongo like meat. Bongo like big boobies. Bongo likey likey. And he always starts off with what he likes the most. . . ie "Bongo really like this girl with big boobies!" . . . "Bongo really like you!" You might think this is funny but this is EXACTLY what 90% of all guys do.

Here's the kicker. After a string of disappointments, the typical guy reads up PU materials that tell him to do the OPPOSITE of what he's been doing. Eureka! Now after the requisite opinion opener and chat about the weather, he pretends, "I no like girl with big boobies." . . . "I no like you!" . . . "And now you treat me to dinner."

This is a conversation? This is game? Is this FUN for you? Can you imagine it being fun for anybody else?

Your 5th grade English teacher was right . . . DON'T tell a story; SHOW the story. If you REALLY LIKE A GIRL, what do you want to do? Where to do you want to do it? When? How? What are the details? What do you want to do with a girl that you really, really like? When asked this question, storyteller wrote:

*Hang out
*flirt
*kiss
*fuck

OK, now we're getting somewhere. So HOW do you want to hang out? Where do you want to go? What do you want to do? When do you want to go? WHAT ARE THE DETAILS? How can you turn this into a REAL LIFE fun story?

Here's storyteller's next pass: (I don't remember exact names but this is pretty much it.)

"I like Jerry's juice. They make killer smoothies. She likes this place too. I'd like to take her there. Then I'd like to take her back to my place. We can fool around... So should I tell that she can treat me to Jerry's juice?"

Much better but you can see how the caveman + PU bs continue to make its presence. The good news is that we finally had some real material to form a real life conversation. Here's a condensed version of what we came up with after several more passes:

Storyteller: Hey, when's the last time you went to Jerry's Juice?
Girl: I don't know. 2 weeks ago.

ST: Oh, I've been dying to go. That place is awesome.
G: Yeah it is.

ST: Which flavor did you get?
G: Banana Twist.

ST: Must have been good.
G: Yeah, it's my favorite. It was so good.

ST: I haven't been there in ages and I told you I've been dying to go and now you're rubbing my nose in it. Cherry Blast is much better than Banana Twist anyways.
G: No way, you don't know what you're talking about.

ST: Are you challenging me? How about a head to head taste test like the ol' Pepsi Challenge? (I'm not even sure if storyteller ever heard of this Pepsi promotion. Must have been in the 80's)
G: Whatever.

ST: I declare the 3rd of December the official Cherry Blast to Banana Twist Challenge Day.

On and on and on . . .

Here's what makes this conversation different. Instead of "telling her" that he likes her, he is DEMONSTRATING to the girl that he likes her. This is what people who like each other do with one another. They tease, they flirt, AND THEY GO OUT to do fun things. There is a "what", a "how", a "why", and a "when" in this conversation. Details were achieved in a short 2 minute conversation. You could do this with ANY GIRL, with ANY TOPIC. And when you can do this so easily, why would you want to pull crap from a 'random chat Rolodex' and pass crap back and forth from each other? ZZZZZzzzzzz....

Random chats about the weather or some TV show won't do ANYTHING for you in terms of game. Sitting there and nodding your head while she talks on and on about her favorite hand bag won't do anything for you. Pretending that you're an automatic reader, spouting PU cliche's won't do anything for you.

The idea is to DEMONSTRATE your passion for life and the INCLUSION of her in it. The next time you say to yourself, "I LIKE ______," ask yourself what that really means. Convey to her what's in your heart and go beyond your inner caveman.

looks:
you dont have to be a model. looks are a small part of building attraction in a woman. still take care of yourself. keep clean, smell good, dress well, excercise, eat healthy. looks will get you attention.

High value:
If you want a girl to be attracted to you then you have to hold value.

Social value:
socail value is natural among humans. we place others on higher and lower grades then our own. someone with high socail value is attractive. someone with high socail value has alot of freinds, good social skills, and does not work for other peoples aproval. you can display socail value by:
-having good communication skills
-mentioning freinds
-acting aloof as to what others thinks of you
-talking with other people around her or people she is with
-body language and voice tone

Pre-selection:
an attractive man already has options. he is desirable by many woman. communicate that you are pre-selected by:
-mentioning ex-girlfriends
-mentioning girl buddys
-being seen with other women
-qualifying her
-acting indifferent to the outcome of your interaction

Jealousy:
a high valued male does not get jealous. never act jealous. no matter what.

Needyness:
dont act needy. do not crave attention or recognition, you dont need it.

Insecurity:
dont act insecure. feel comftorbal with who you are.

Optimistic:
be optimistic, be real, but look at the bright side.

Don't try and please her:
Don't view her as out of your league. dont just do things to please her. keep your dignity. don't talk about how great you are to try to impress her. use subtle communication to SHOW her how great you are. don't just ask her what she wants to get her to like you. that includes saying things like:
"what do you want to do?"
"is this alright?"
"where do you want to sit?"
"are you alright?"
"whatever makes you happy"
"im whatever you want me to be"
"whatever you like"

hard to get:
don't just give yourself to her. humans desire and value something more if they have to work for it. dont always be available. give her the gift of missing you.

Shit tests:
sometimes girls will say or do something to communicate something that isnt true to see how you reacts. they do this to test you. she wants to see if she will get a reaction out of you. she tests:

-your attraction for her, to see if she has already won you over
-to see if your only motive is sex
-your emotional strength: if you will get jealous, if you have low self-esteem, if you get aggrivated easily, if your needy or insecure.

dont let these tests bother you. act careless, ignore it, dont let it aggrivate you, dont try and prove yourself. answer shit tests in a way that says you have know motives to seduce her, she has not yet won you over, and you are completley unaffected by it.

ex.

-she wonders away from you/ doesn't sit next to you
-she talks about other guys
-she says shes not interested in you
-she lies about having a boyfreind when you first meet
-she says she doesnt want to do something with you
-she says she doesnt want to be in a relationship
-she talks down about you
-she ignores you/ looks away/ acts disinterested
-if she has a boyfriend and trys to talk to you about something wrong with there relationship. (she wants to see if you would try to break them up so that she will go for you. instead stick up for the guy, she will then actually try and talk him down more and think better of you.)

physical communication:
body language:
physical communication carries just as much importants as the words we use.

-stand confidently, dont hunch
-relax your body
-look confident in your expresions
-dont figet or make any nervous movements
-move confident and sexualy
-develope sexual flow through body language, voice tone, expressions, touch

Physical gradients:
there is a scale of physical "gradients" for a sexual relationship. gradients are grades on a scale of accent or descent. with some women you want to start at a higher or lower gradient when first meeting them. you can then either move up or down the scale. observe her. move up, down, or make no motion depending on how she reacts.

1) facing away from her, not looking at her
2) facing away from her, breifly looking at her, disinterested facail expressions
3) facing away from her, look at her and look away fromt time to time, curious expressions
4) facing slightly towards her, leaning back, arms crossed, look at her and look away from time to time, judgeing expressions
5) facing her relaxed, leaning back, arms open, looking at her and looking away from time to time, slight interest in facail expressions
6) facing her relaxed, leaning back, arms open, mostly looking at her, interested facail expressions, eye contact, smiles.
7) being close (do not lean in), freindly looks, formal touches: kiss, hug, handshake, light touches
being close (do not lean in), sexual looks, deep breathing, sexual touches: neck, thighs, hair, hands, wrist
9) being close, sexual looks, deep breathing, light petting, light kissing,
10) being close, sexual looks, deep breathing, heavy petting, making out
11) intercourse

Verbal communication:

indirect:
when first meeting a girl you may want to be indirect. have a reason for starting a conversation with her. you are not displaying sexual interest. this appears more natural and has her geussing as to whether you are attracted to her or not.

qualification:
qualify a girl as to see what she is like. this says that you are slective ,and have options, and that you are after more then sex. if a girl is interested or not she will try and prove herself. she now has to put time and effort into winning you over. this gives you value in her mind because she is working for your approval. the frame should be "are you right for me?" not "how can i please you?"

listen:
dont talk about yourself to much. ask questions, actualy listen to what she is saying, and be interested. dont try and think of what to say next.

pull:
tell her things you like about her when getting to know her

push:
push a girl by saying things that make it seem like shes failing to win you over. this again shows that you have options and are after more then just sex. it makes her trust you about other things you tell her because you seem not to have a motive. it gives her dought and lets her know she needs to prove herself to be with you.

verbal gradients:
also follow gradients with verbal communication. the lowest gradient would be not talking at all.

ex. 1
1) talking about something other then her
2) light conversation about her
3) deep personal topics

ex. 2
1) tell her things that communicate you're uninterested in her
2) tell her things that communicate you may become interested in her
3) tell her things that communicate you're interested in her

ex. 3
1) talking very little
2) talking more
3) talking alot

sex talk:
never bring up the topic of sex unless she brings it up. she may communicate negative sex talk, talking about sex negatively. if so you want to agree. negative sex talk is just the lowest gradient in sex talk and may later transition into positive sex talk, talking about it as a good thing. if she talks about sex possitively then do the same.

Good topics:-interesting facts
-relationships
-drama
-analysing phsycology and the world around you
-her (what kind of person she is, her views on life)
-games, palm reads, personality tests, horoscopes

simularitys (oppisites do not attract):
find girls with simularitys. we feel attracted and closer to people who are like us.

Be unique and interesting:
you dont want to try hard to be interesting and unique, you don't want to look like you're trying to impress her, but youdon't want to be like every other guy, you want to stand out, you want to pique her interest.

1) hot girls get complimented on their looks all the time. never tell a physicaly attractive girl she is beautiful until you have been dating for a while.

2) be unpredictable, dont always be exactly the same its un-natural, suprise her.

3) instead of giving a direct answer, getting right to the point of a story, or telling her something right away, first add some mystery and some pauses before telling her more, to build tension and captivate her interest.
ex.
"wanna know what they said?"
"do you know what it is?"
"geuss what"
"i just found out something very interesting"

4) all girls think that all guys want from them is sex. so show her other wise. show her that you want more than sex. slightly withdraw from sex, but not completely. in the begining have a "not yet" or "not now" attitude to build tension and leave her wanting more. you will also show her your not all about sex.

5) law of assosiation/emotional arrousal/nlp: do fun things. be funny. be fun. bring up topics or do things that make her think positive, put her in a good mood, and give her good feelings. she will anchor those feelings to you. you don't even need to be the one making her feel good as long as somethings putting her in a good mood when shes with you.

Not all girls are the same:
every girl is unique do not group them together. not all girls are the same. there are different girls with different personalitys. dont get to stuck on only doing something one way everytime with every girl.

love girls:
some girls that are emotionaly arroused or horny dont require much more then a confident man who will approach her and start on a higher sexual gradient.

beautiful teases:
we all know the girl who flirts with guys and as soon as they flirt back they run the other way. these women are scared shitless of men who come onto them sexually. she is used to being called beautiful and being hit on. this girl wants you to stay at a very low sexual gradient and let her do all the work. let her seduce you. you want to communicate that you do not find her physicaly/sexually attractive but that you realy like her personality and feel good around her and admire her friendship. never come onto her. always let her be the one to make a move on you.

ugly girls:
usualy you can pretty much say and do anything. just be nice. although you might not want a sexual relationship with an ugly girl it help to be friends with as many girls as you can.

Observe her:
observe what turns her onto you and what makes her withdraw from you. if something works with a girl do it more to her. never stop doing what gets you the girl ...ever. if you notice something you do makes her withdraw then stop doing it, do something else. observe her body language, there is a difference between her being polite and being attracted.

Creating future:
when talking make plans for future events instead of just randomly one day asking "hey, wanna hang out". dont ask just mention "hey we should do that sometime" then dont say anything else to try and persuade her. find reasons to get together other then "getting to know eachother" or "catching up". constantly create future throughout a relationship, never stop.

Do not fear the aproach:
do not fear rejection. usualy the worst doesn't happen, and if it does then you will realize it isn't that big of a deal. the more you approach the better your chances. the better your chances the more options you have. the more options you have the more experience you gain.

Check this out butter cup... There are alot of experienced guys on this forum that get people laid or help people with other areas of their life... FOR FREE! NO CHARGE FOR THE HELP! But when someone asks for a little bit in return, they are all of the sudden a criminal? Nobody on this forum tries to force people to buy their shit. The mods here are very good about keeping the internet marketers (shitty ones too I might add) off of here and making sure that if someone is going to "sell" something, they provide value to the forum by posting quality information

You see, you are not the first person to get a little rattled by the way I speak to people or my ways of teaching someone something... But that's all good. I don't care because here's the facts princess, I get people laid.

I've done this long enough and coached enough people now where I notice patterns in peoples learning as far what works and what doesn't. The shit from 2007 was complicated and scientific sounding. (Probably the reason you like that style of information better would be my guess) But what works for MOST people, as far as helping people get results, I'm pretty well aware of. The streamlined results get people the results quicker... I know this because, as I've been suggesting you begin to do, I field test it.

Also, I give the same quality information and advice to non paying clients (i.e. posters on the forum) as I do to anyone who has or is working with us as a paid client. Many of the other "respected" posters on this forum offer the same. The reason people pay for any type of service or product is because they want even more personalized and direct attention to help them achieve something they are focused on. From what I get out of you, you are more focused on debunking the whole idea that you can get better results with women and dating than you are focused on actually accomplishing such a goal.

So you can either stick with your belief that picking up women is a "science" where everything has a black and white answer or you can realize that you simply need experience in order to understand what you are doing and how to be good with women in all different types of situations. The shit you read may look good on paper because you can read it and perceive it any way you want...

But until you get out and field test the shit you read, please shut the fuck up and go back to your little hole.

Route : Failure#1, Failure#2, Failure#3...Failure#n, Success.