Man… all of you need to chill out… everyone has the right to express their opinion… that’s why it’s a forum…
I guess what you are failing to realize is that Mystery’s method is for AFCs to become PUAs… Now an AFC is a person who has approach anxiety… lacks confidence… freezes when talking to girls… doesn’t know what to say…
A PUA has a lot of confidence… no fear… no anxiety… when you reach that point you know have the confidence and game to get any girl you want… you don’t need routines… you can use the lamest pickup lines and still get a girl… in fact you will just to see how good you are at pickup…
The main point here is that it is a journey from AFC to PUA and it takes time and learning…
Routines don’t directly help an AFC with confidence… what they do is help you with other issues… approach, freezing, and not knowing what to say… initially even with routines you will crash and burn multiple times… specially curveball situations… but at least you are out there and interacting with girls… once other issues start to disappear it in turn builds confidence…
So routines are just tools that help you get there… once you are there you become a natural at pickup and don’t need to rely on routines…
It’s a personal choice… but if you are an AFC routines will help
In my case I don’t use routines often… only when I conversation starts to die down I might use it once or twice…

I like to break rules just to see if I can still game her
Sometimes I point at a girl and talk about her to my wing and make sure she sees me do it. Once she gets sees me and gets uncomfortable I will walk up to her and game her.
I told a girl who was wearing a designer but sluty outfit that why bother wearing that… you should have come here naked…
even after that, believe me I have closed every single one of them… no routines… but I still suggest routines if you are an AFC.

Funny thing is when I was probably twelve my dad was teaching me, aspects of game. Hes never read a book on it, and amazingly alot of the shit he taught me runs along the exact line of what the gurus teach. I think you might be threatened by the idea that people can be taught the art of attraction, because in someway you think your god's gift to sexuality. And if mystery's techniques are a farce why would go as far as watching his dvd's on silent. bottom line here is dont knock on somebody who has proven himself, when you have nothing to offer. Make some posts, write field reports. If you have some insight, or knowledge then share it. Thats why the rest of us come here. We love what we do, and love sharing our growth and elevating our brothers. Now stop defending yourself, and use this forum for the same positive reasons we all use it.

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CHASE

Ok, lets agree to disagree, simply for the fact that I don't want to go back and forth on the internet.

IMO, you're better off developing a great personality than learning a few techniques

But, hey, that's just me (what do i know ? i only have 15 posts )

1)You're right man. A great personality is absolutely essential to ANYTHING regarding social interaction. However, it is not the end all answer. There's still factors such as the specific attitude of the women your seducing, whether or not their friends love to cockblock, and the number of competition at the specific place your picking up.

2)No one said anything about you not knowing anything based on number of posts. The fact is what you said earlier was based out of pure ignorance. Sure, you can believe the Mystery Method is a crock of shit, but it is because of the work done by guys like Mystery that this forum even exists. You to claim that just great personality is the key factor to everything is like men saying looks are the only thing that matter in a girl. That, in turn, demonstrates narrow-mindedness and an interest in only trying to get your personal opinion out (Which, by the way, is respected either way).

Be more open-minded to things. You just might learn a bit more than you do now. We believe you know your material, and have been through the game, but dont try to come off as if you know everything. No one knows everything, and to claim that there is only one definitive answer shows ignorance.

That's it.

I wouldn't asume that my statements were based on ignorance. Like i said, i've read all of these materials numerous times and after being out and about in the real world, i've come to the conclusion that developing personality traits is much better than memorizing lines, and key phrases.

Now i never said that Looks were the only thing that was important in a female.
I've met really confident, charismatic woman that weren't all that in the looks Department, yet i still found myself very much attracted to them.

But think of it this way: if you have a great personality, that engages the whole group naturally, you make friends with a girls friends, you're polite to her friends, You tell interesting stories (not canned ones, but interesting things that happened in your life) Her friends aren't going to "cockblock" you, in fact if they really like you, they'll probably encourage her.

So what's the answer to all this ? Simple. Develop each one of your personality traits. First work on being Ultra confident (and i hate to say it, but even confidence is overrated, it's more about not caring what people think). Then work on being nice (i know, i know, the dreaded word..."Nice") Guess what ? Kindness, compassion, understanding, generosity, friendlyness, and warmth are VERY underrated. As long as they're genuine, and you have a level of Confidence AND Assertiveness to back it up (insecure/fake niceness is just plain disgusting, and that's where these women are turned off.)

I know some REALLY nice guys that don't even have to move a finger in order to get laid. They don't even try. I would even go as far as to say that a nicer a guy is, the more he gets laid.

That's ultimately what you want.

Haha.... alright man, well you can think what you like. But the numbers don't lie. Can you compete with Mystery's numbers or Style's numbers? Having game isn't about going out and sleeping with every girl you see..... but the difference is that the great PUAs know damn good and well that they could. For PUAs, the question isn't whether or not you can have her, it's whether or not you'll choose to approach her..... because everything after that has been decided.

You may have every bit as much confidence as Mystery and Style.... but they have the numbers to back it up. I'm not advocating using "opinion" openers or lame stuff like that. But being prepared does not make you a robot... it makes you good at what you do.

Salesmen sell products....
Politicians sell beliefs....
Agents sell their clients....
PUAs sell themselves....

There is absolutely no differences in the laws of sales and the laws attraction. Salesmen simply make their products attractive. But everyone must first sell themselves. And all these guys don't go into their meetings with their heads in their asses. They have pitches, talking points, sound bites..... but the point is to make it totally natural and seem totally improvised.

I went to one of the best sales schools in the country a few years ago. And one thing they taught me about pitches is that it doesn't matter that you didn't make it up yourself. When you get familiar with it, you learn it, and you know it..... it becomes yours. You become so confident and so natural that it doesn't matter where it came from, because at that point in time, it's yours.

So you think being prepared makes us robots. But again, the numbers don't lie. Just like the salesmen and the politicians, it just makes us better at what we do than you are.

If a salesman is a lonely, needy loser, who is nervous when he talks and has low self esteem, noones gonna buy anything from him

SHOW...


It takes personality kid... im with you... it takes confidence... i agree...
you seem like an outgoing kid, so yea u may not need those techniques, but some shy people do..some guys are terrified to even say hi to a girl...


others have confidence and personality, but why not use these skills to the advantage...

example: lets say you could increase your bating average by 20% just by changing the way you hold your baseball bat or the way you swing.. would you not do that?

Thats what we do, sure I could go out and just be myself like i used to and get women, but if by tweeking the game and saying foolish things doubles the number of girls you can pick up: the question isnt why would you do something like that, the question is why wouldnt you brother??

ALSO to all,

its good that VH1 had that show and exposed the old lines...PUAs need to be able to create their own material...

create your own openers, your own stories, I think this is what SNOW was trying to stress... we know the overall method works, but as PUAs we should not have to be robots and only use past material...

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SHURGS




add me on myspace www.myspace.com/jshurgs

Excatly my point from the start.
I believe people use "pick-up lines" and "Routines" as somewhat of a crutch.

Man, imagine if you were a girl and you found out the guy you've been dating for a while now was rehearsing and memoriing the things he said to you. Not only that...He got them from a book

How would you feel ?

Better yet...how 'bout if every conversation you had with people was fake.
Your best friend Rehearsed all his lines, wouldn't you be weirded out ?

Now for the people who got all uptight, as i explained before, that is the ONLY Problem i have with The Mystery Method. Everything else in there is Gold. But when i read it to myself, and i see "Style's Im A Psychic Routine" and they want you to memorize that i can't help but to laugh to myself

Alright man.... that came out of left field, so the community can now freely rest on our original assumption that you don't know shit. If you're denying that salesmen have pitches and some sort of preparation for his encounters, then your ignorance extends far beyond the pick-up I community. I know in the movies he walks in with his gleaming confidence and steal the room by merely saying the first thing that comes into his life..... but that's not real life. And since you apparently watch too many movies, I can also tell you that a girl won't be swayed by a dozen roses and a box of chocolates either... just helping you out.

^ Yawn....

Men who are naturally attractive to women don't need a "Ploy"
Stop letting these books gas your head up and think for yourself.
Did you even know that there are men who naturally get women ?
Do you know attractive qualities in a man ? if so, name them.

And what the hell are you talking about movies ?

Let me tell you a story about one of my friends and how i met him.
Back in my first year of college i took a business class. The first day of class this guy just stands up and says in the worst stoner voice, something that made him look dumb as hell. Something along the lines of "what are we doing" in a "where are we" kinda tone. We all laughed at him, but i actually respected the dude. So much so, I felt the respect in my gut. Why ? he didn't give a fuck what people thought. And i'm not much different than other people in this world, so i'm sure they felt the same gut feeling. Over the next few weeks i was bullshitting with this dude in class. Mind you, this kid fucked up all his speeches, did poorly at everything, and when you talked to him, he would admit it...and laugh about it. "Hey man...i really fucked that up, lol." Fuck it, the dude didn't care. This guy also had more model looking women on his arms than you've ever seen in a PUA pickup. You think he rehearsed his lines ? lol... You think he's on this forum ? nah. He just don't give a shit. Learn from it.

And lets try to stay on Topic.

HOW ABOUT:

We lock this thread, and not dwell on this stupidity any longer.

Show:Personality is a big part of the whole process, but ISNT the end of all means. W/e. Fuck whether MM is legitimate or not, just dont assume your answer is the only correct answer. Open-mindedness takes many far.

Everyone else:Stop adding fuel to the fire.It ends now.

LOCK THIS,SOMEONE.

I'm going to take a middle ground approach, I tend to agree with master Shurgs.

I like to break things down in to a logical explanation, from which I observed the following:

Many guys really dont know where to begin when they want to meet a woman so something like the mystery method is perfect to learn the social interactions that take place during pick up. By breaking it down into a set of routines it can make a person feel more assured about what they are going to say and their confidence will grow over time from the experience in the field. Also, by viewing the interaction as merely a 'game', a person may reduce the importance of getting shot down and is more likely to get back up on the horse and ride it again.

I also understand show's point of view because confidence at the end of the day is key to success. Trouble is, you can listen to as many Anthony Robbins cds as you want but unless you are out in the field approaching and learning how to manipulate the social interations to your advantage, you won't necesarily get girls.

At the end of the day, we could all probably work out the MM for ourselves if we just approached 100 women a week and learned from our mistakes. Essentially this is what the MM is. It is the learnings of a man who has done this over and over again and pinpointed certain keys to success.

Woooord. Lock this before our IQs are severely damaged and can't remember all of our canned openers and memorized lines .

nothing wrong with a bit of banter... keeps the grey matter working.