I dated a pick up artist for a little bit before I knew anything about all of this stuff. Needless to say, it ended poorly. my opinion is that it might be because of the shit advice that all you boys are giving and receiving. Basically you think all of us girls are out to get you and ruin you. No doubt, some girls are crazy bitches. Not all of us however. And after awhile you run so much game on everyone, how the hell would you even know anymore?

Ever heard of a self fulfilling prophecy? when you feel a certain way, usually fearing something, and subconcsciously (or maybe in this case consciously) do things that act in accordance with your belief, ultimately causing the reaction you originally feared. (below is assuming he actually started off with somewhat normal intentions)
him: "damn I really like this chick. SHe'll probably fuck me over because most girls are bitches but I'm gonna go for it anyways."
her: "yea I like him, he's a cool guy, we'll see what happens."
after seeing each other for awhile...
him: "does she like me?? Do i have her completely?? well why the hell is she always talking to that guy friend of hers? Is she trying to piss me off? well fuck her then. Ill just pull a freeze out or punish her by ignoring her phone calls. Hell no I wouldn't think of communicating with her because then she'll know I really care!! Then she'll know I'm jealous and jealousy is insecurity which is UNATTRACTIVE! Plus the less I say, the more mysterious I'll be! I'll show her. She'll know she can't fuck with me like that anymore."
her: "why the hell is he acting so strange lately?? hmmmm maybe he had a bad day but I'll give him his space."
him: "WHAT THE FUCK!? Why is she not even calling me?? Doesnt she fucking care? Whatever I'll call my other PUA friends for advice. See! I fucking knew it. Even they say she is fucking with me. Screw her. I'll go fuck someone else and ignore her some more. I'll get the control back!"
her: " why is he acting so distant? Whatever! This is getting ridiculous. I'm done with this weirdo"
him: " I knew she was a bitch the whole time. All girls are bitches!"

maybe that's a bit dramatic. Or maybe not considering what I've read on here and numerous other sites.

I'm sorry, but the advice is lame....

for example: "if she tries to act in a way that confuses you or hurts your little boy feelings- PUNISH her by ignoring her. If she acts strange, put her through a shit test. If she complies, then hell yea!!! You have control. If not, then forget her. Go fuck more girls. if you still have the hots for her, go fuck every girl you see. then your one-itis will be cured! if you still like her, go fuck more chicks!!!"

here is my problem with this: If you continue to fuck with a girl by testing her, playing games with her and on her, and trying to control and dominate all the time...she will stay. IF she has low self esteem. Last time I checked, low self esteem is not an attractive quality, right? But hey, if that's what you are looking for then more power to you. You will end up with teh type of girls who are looking for a daddy figure and sleep with everyone- so don't fool yourself into thinking this makes you special. And ultimately you will probably be sorry when you end up with AIDS or herpes or a child that is or is not yours. Either way you'll have 18 years of child support payments. YAY!

If a girl is smart and has a mind of her own- which is the type of girl every guy ultimately wants- she won't let you control her, dominate her, or play her. She'll get out as soon as she realizes what she is up for. She knows she deserves better than that and she won't waste her time trying to prove it to anyone. She might be a bitch to you and she might be standoffish or act confusing because she KNOWS even if she can't prove it. This is the type of chick you would actually want around, yet can't have because she wouldn't want a little boy who has to resort to manipulation and tricks to get her.

and another thing. I guess that favors are another word for shit tests. And its "psychologically proven!" so I guess it MUST BE TRUE!!! Well last time I checked, in any relationship you are in, people are going to test you. I once asked the PUA I was seeing if he could pick me up something I needed while he was in the area since he was coming over anyways. He didn't respond. He comes over empty handed and said "what? I couldn't get it. Get over it. Go get it yourself." It didn't make me like him more. That was the beginning of me wondering why he was being such a jackass over something so small. My friends don't treat me that way, I don't treat my friends that way. so why would I let a guy act just strange and shady toward me for no apparent reason? And when I started getting distant, his self fulfilling prophecy started coming true.


"any club that would have me of a member, i dont want to be a part of" is a saying that displays an inferiority complex. guys with low self esteem dont want what they can have. They want what they can't have because this girl not liking them is actually this girl in sync with how the guy feels about himself. he doesn't want a girl that wants him because he feels he is flawed so therefore something must be wrong with the girl who wants him.

last time i checked, real men who are content with themselves aren't running around trying to prove it to themselves. they have better things to do. They will appreciate someone who loves them for them because they love themselves as well.

That's why I don't think that this really comes down to guys wanting to be accepted by females. Its by guys wanting to be accepted-PERIOD. In the book "the game" he talks about this and that's why I actually enjoyed the book.

I guess I don't understand the intentions behind even beginning something like this.

Wanting to get woman? Ok, understandable. Well how about: Love yourself, get a fucking life. Get a hobby. Be excited and passionate about something. Learn some social skills. All this crap advice has helped you gain social skills? Good! I'm glad.

But once it turns into manipulation and psychology tactics to get into someones psyche for control, shit just gets weird and creepy. There is no way to defend that.

Just my thoughts boys.

I think the PU Arts exist because of women, not in spite of them. Furthermore its our society which has fucked up both sexes. A man is either good or he is not, either respects women or does not, PUA doesn't change a good man into a bad man, or vice versa. Only a man can decide to do that for himself.

PUA does enable bad men to be even worse, but it ALSO enables good men to enter the game at all. Men are intellectual creatures, some of us just don't "get" the ins and outs of the social arena. By structuring it in an intellectual, patterned way, we can have something to go off of and begin to understand where we are failing and why.

I always go direct mid-game, that way the relationship can naturally transition into something not so mechanical. Once I go direct, if they reject me, depending on how they reject me, I can either game some more or just let it be. If they accept me, I can begin to act more off feeling than thinking, and go with the flow and a more natural game.

I do however agree with what your saying, I'm just pointing out that this guy was not OK to begin with, if he had never heard of PUA and you had been with him, he would have been crazy in other ways. Thats my opinion at least.

_________________
Programmer of reality.

Good insight Mindwarp

Mindwarp: You are totally right and I have to agree with you about society and how it has fucked up both sexes. VERY TRUE.

I also have to agree that anyone can use the material for good or bad. In "The game" I actually had some respect for Style throughout the book...Mystery, not so much. I guess its kinda one of those things...you can take what you know and cause evil...or you can take what you know and cause good...

The only thing to me that bothers me about PUA's is that I think stuff like this reinforces our fucked up views of each other.

PUA's go out to game some girls. They realize that a large percentage of girls are easy to game and easy to have sex with. They generalize and assume that all women are the same and begin to treat all women the same and having less and less respect for them with every encounter.

I think that's reality, no doubt, a large majority of girls are like that. I suppose in the scheme of things, it irritates me that the PUA's mind gets "warped". And it does because I think the majority of guys using this stuff are too immature to see a larger picture behind it.

You have to understand that pick-up is the leveling field of men and women. If a guy walked up to you and said "Hi i Play world of warcraft would you like to go out with me?" id bet 100% you would reject him. Now if that same guy cleaned up and walked up to you with "Id be kicking myself all day if i didn't say hi to you." you would find that cute. Now if that same guy came and went up to you and asked you for a female opinion and everyone in your group liked him you would say to yourself, 'I wonder if he's attracted to me.'

Thats how it works, everyone is out their for themselves and for one reason or another. Some people get into pick up so they can have women in their lives as more then just friends, some guys want to fuck every girl they meet. Another guy gets into pickup to get into a long term relationship with a girl.

Pickup is about putting your most attractive acceptable self in front of a girl and asking her to judge you. After that it's up to the guy about how much he wants to reveal about himself. I feel that once committed to a relationship with a girl, you should be your regular self and honest in your feelings for each other. yOur bf could have been one bad apple in the group but don't assume that the rest of the people in the community are like him.

The game might be cruel but it has results.

_________________
Hobbit: Manwhore.inc: So good, it got FatalKill125 laid.
Co-Founder of Manwhore.inc

wow. well said, leah

every dude on here needs to read leah's post. it's kind of sad; a website that allows guys to give each other bad advice on how to pick up women? granted, some of it is pretty good i suppose. but most of these dudes are WAAAAYYY too concerned with what women think of them and whether or not they're going to get laid.

you see, i was once one of those poor saps, lol i tried joining the PUA forum awhile back, and after about 3 days i realized how ridiculous it was, and the degree of embarrassment i felt at having to enlist the help of other dudes who had nothing better to do than bitch about women problems.

i've got a couple of man-slut friends. their life consists of partying and bagging as much tail as they can and bragging about it to their pals. i made fun of them all the time, at which point they proceeded to bust on me for never getting laid. so you know what i did?

for about 3 months i did nothing but whore myself out. i had no job and no life. i slept with more girls in those few months than i can remember. and you know what i had to show for it?
an empty wallet, incurred debt, a near pregnancy, and chlamydia.

so my advice is this, fellas. get a life. forget this lame website and these lame, manipulative tactics you use to validate your manhood (or boyhood) and your social status among your peers.

like leah said, go get a hobby and a life outside of chasing vagina. quit worrying so much about what women think of you and the fact that it reflects your opinion of yourself.

Be patient. Be confident. And they will come to you. You won't need to trick them.

just sayin...

good luck!!!

I was typing a lengthy rensponse to this but I'll just quote one of my favorite amerindian quote
Far from all girls are biches, and far from all PUAs are not respectfull of women. I woudn't want to judge any that fall into either categories.

_________________
Drink me, make me feel real
Wet your beak in the stream
Game we're playing is life
Love is a two way dream