Just received this as a PM so thought I'd post it, I don't know if it's good advice or what.

To be honest, Hobbit I think I'm more in tune with your advice, but part of me wants to go with this^ simply because there is more chance she'll stick around (as weak as that makes me look).

As far as acting like we're a couple I've been doing that, we went to each others birthday nights out, on her birthday weekend I had her over and I cooked her a meal otherwise she would have been home alone, we spent NYE together, and I've stayed round hers a couple of times on a week night before. It's all moved very quickly, because in reality this has only been going on a month, despite first sleeping with her in at the end of October.

I've been thinking over the last 48 hours, and my actual views on this are: yeah we can be honest and we can be open, but if she does hook up with someone else be it a kiss/sex/date, in my mind it's over and I will tell her that too. I'm not looking for anything serious, just some companionship.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

100%

I offered this "example", not so that we can judge others but more to inspire us to shift our own behaviors.

Do you want to be liked? Then be a likable person.
Do you want to be loved? Then be a lovable person.
Do you want to be respected? Then be a respectable person.

Telling yourself or others that you are this or that is a poor replacement/supplement for just doing it.

I've always done my best to leave myself out of other members' goals/dreams; hey, our dreams are personal. We want what we want. But some dreams are contradictory. You can't desire to be a pacifist while also wanting to beat people up. Artfulroger, you can't want her to stick around while pretending as if it's all good if she leaves.

1. Figure out what you want.
2. Strategize.
3. Follow through.

Thanks to you both hobbit and Kasabi. With her I don't need to put a label on it right now, I just want to know we are working towards something that is going in the direction of relationship, but I need to know she won't want to see/do anything with anyone else otherwise I'm out. I think I will say something along the lines of what I wrote above.

But I have to admit I'm caught in 2 minds, I feel like I should stay strong and put an ultimatum out there along the lines of: your my girlfriend or you're not, but at the same time, I feel putting a label on it early on, puts added pressure. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't want her to be my girlfriend today or next week, but I want to be seeing her monogamously and that we're both effectively working towards that in the near future.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Why not slowly bring it up in conversation, say after sex when you're in.bed? Something along the lines of "Its weird, I enjoy spending time with you. It's hard to come across a person like that for me. I think it's rare that two people who have good chemistry find each other. I'd really like to see where this goes with you. How do you feel about it?"

Thanks Traveller, it may have gotten past that point for it to naturally flow like that.

Not going to lie this is really stressing me out, I did an emotional blunder last night and pissed her off. We were chatting on SPAM because I was trying to organise a meet up, potentially Friday now (probably not after this).
Anyway she typed into the wrong chat window to me saying, "anyone around early evening for dinner saturday?" so from my phone screen it went like this:
"oh yeah speaking of that, can we talk about that?"
"err yeah?"
"the museum psychological thing"
"I'm gonna have to resched"
"But you suggested it!"
"I know but I've gotta book bank appointments"
"ok. how long is it on for do you know?"
"ages. mid summer"
"Ah that's good news. And finally what's going on saturday evening?"
"Was just planning dinner"
"Ok. Can you let me know about that friend of yours staying. Out of respect."
"Out of respect? You having a fucking laugh? Why would I tell you then not let you know. Bore off."
"That's not what I meant exactly. Are they coming yes or no is what I meant."
"Yer, think so"
"Thanks, that's all I needed to know"
"Lucky I told you that at all so you can drop ditch that tone of voice"
"Can we talk on the phone quick it's easier"
"Nah busy"
(Tried to call)
"It would be easier to do this over the phone: look you're right and I'm sorry. I am genuinely thankful for your honesty, I can see how my words made you think I was sniping and ungrateful I wish I did them differently. The problem is I care what's going on, really fucking care."
"Really can't talk right now."
15 minutes later I put: "Ignore me, I'm just being a big girl (not a joke or sarcastic). Sorry for wasting your time for the last 20 minutes. Apart from the really fucking care bit. That's honest, probably the only thing I'd keep if I could rewrite all that bollocks."
Then just said I was off to bed.
I did none of this, apart from an emotional outburst which I totally regret. I imagine some silent SPAM for the next few days, deserved I might add.


On reflection. I'm taking sometime out for a couple of days to do some self improvement, I don't know whether to contact her first or let her contact me. However I need a cooling off period: start working out again, do some studying, continue with setting up my business venture.

I have no idea how to start a healthy relationship.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Damn!

I`m learning more from your journal than what I`m doing on mine. I believe this is a good example on having the strongest frame than she does.

When Hobbit adviced you to lead, he fucking meant it! Now I see why this is so important: Artful I believe that the minute we show the girl a weak frame, we lose her.

Plain simple.

This may be in contradiction with your own emotions of wanting some security, wanting to have an open communication about intentions, but as you can see; when dropped at a bad timing, it just blow things up.

You are doing JUST FINE here sir, you are EXPOSING yourself out there, wich is more than I have to say about other members. Just learn a lesson out of it.

Take the lead! It`s yours for the taking.

Thanks for reading Bond, yeah I've no problem with putting myself out there now. It seems the best way to learn.

Ok reading over my texting, it was incredibly needy but I did suggest to clarify over the phone and then I apologised; what else can I do? Her sketchy behaviour is the problem not mine now.

So time to strategize.

1. No contact until Monday
2. Only reply about Friday if she asks
3. Don’t ask about the weekend
4. Proceed as normal from Monday (as in begin contact again)
5. If something happened with the friend it’s over

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Certainly worth a consideration here, and something I need to think about. To be honest I'm not sure how I can distinguish the difference right now, apart from time to myself after it happens maybe?

She actually messaged me tonight:
"Friends..?"
"ok. Still on for Friday?"
"can't do Friday eek sorry"
"ok. Let me know when you're free then"
"will do"

I feel like I'm in the driving seat now and the next step of the plan is to get her round mine and tell her how I feel. Judging by how our schedules run, that could be Sunday night or perhaps Wednesday next week.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

What type of "driver seat" are you imagining yourself in? A freaking pink Barbie Mini? If you want this girl to be exclusive to you, then you better start tightening the reigns or she'll soon be asking you suck her boyfriend's balls while she gets plowed by him in her ass.

You are trying to do too much. You are over thinking too much. You want too much. If you want to live the life of a man-whore, do it. Have fun with it. She'll go and suck random cock every weekend and you'll meet up with her once every 2 months in between all your man-whore activities. But if you want her to be your girlfriend, you have to start first by being a fucking man:

"Friends..?"
"ok. Still on for Friday?"
"can't do Friday eek sorry"
"ok. Let me know when you're free then"
"will do"

^A man or a chick?

Tried being a "man" today (although I'm clearly way over emotional to be one, but hey that's just me), to clarify and move forward or call it off but then I realised I couldn't actually do anymore after this:

"I'll be home from 8:30 tonight, I'm fed up of game playing and indecision, I want to find something we can both agree on, because it feels like we didn't actually agree on anything - well at least I didn't, and you deserve to know where I'm coming from"
"Right... as I said, can't do tonight"
"That's ok. When can you do?"
"Probs not this weekend"
"Monday night after my lecture around 8.30?
"yea"
"see you then"
"Not really sure I can deal with a deep and meaningful on a monday"
"Get Mondayitis that bad hey? Let's do Wednesday then, say 7.30 and I'll come to you"
"I don't really have anything else to say other than what I have already"
"I'm not asking you to, I'm just asking you hear me out like I did you"
"Right"


I tried to repair things and suggest we need to talk next week, and she's just being avoidant really, trying not to have a 'deep meaningful conversation' (her words) basically I wanted to tell her it's relationship or nothing.

Now because of this sketchy behaviour from her this week, I'm already convinced nothing is the way forward, this is not the girl I was seeing in December, this is not the girl I want in my life. And Kasabi as you said I may keep her around every now and then to hook up with, when I can be bothered that is.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Pay special attention to were Hobbit and Kasabi are going with this.

There is a very important lesson hidden in here, pay attention to this moment.

Do know you what, absolutely not. And I only realised this after writing it last night, but it was a helpful prompt from you hobbit. I was always pointing the finger going "her, her, her.." but didn't once stop to look at me or what I was doing. I can admit I'm jealous about this weekend with this friend that's come to stay, luckily for me he lives on the other end of England - that's comforting in it's own strange way.

Now in retrospect I can hold my hands up and say I created this, my behaviour resulted in (my biased at the time view) her poor behaviour - which wouldn't actually have happened if she wasn't reacting to mine. It would have been sorted if 1. I knew how I felt 2. Told her what I wanted at that time. But since I didn't know how I felt I should have just said "ok, I need to leave I need some space to think about things and I'll get back you" then dropped/had minimal contact for a few days to let my emotions digest, then gotten back to her.

Since I realised this, I initiated contact this morning and we shared a couple of messages, where I was hoping to recapture that vibe that was going so well before. I didn't get the vibe I was looking for but it was an improvement, we were talking and getting along and I managed to put the "we" back in rather than me vs you, this will take time to turn this around. Now I've left her some space to get on with her weekend, for now.

Things I want to do:
1. Drop the we need to talk tone.
2. Just hang out and have fun with her again

Things I need to do:
1. Seek clarity and tell her what I want from this

I don't know how to execute any of the above effectively, at least not now. Just meeting up with her is my first goal, I think perhaps if I can get that original vibe going again at least for 2/3 meet ups then I can do the "talk." Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way but any advice on proceeding now would be much welcomed.


P.S. If this gives the impression I'm at home mopping around that's not true, I am doing socially active things as well as some self improvement stuff - in doing this I've managed to feel a lot better about myself and get my head around the whole situation.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

I've been getting a lot of headaches about this whole thing for the past week, and I just want that mental energy back as much as I want answers. Personally I feel like I've been manipulated into getting attached to her, and she'll only call on me for a time that's convenient i.e. when her flat mates not at home or she has no plans on a saturday night. I admit what we had back in December was great, and I started to believe it was something because she led me down that road, I remember the first time we hooked up not drunk was a Sunday, and she said "I'm not having sex with you," and jokingly around I replied "Why did you invite me around then?" Which she replied "Is that all this is to you?" We sorted what it was at the time, but this is when I felt I was led through some false belief.

I may be absolutely stupid here, but I'm not ruling anything out, but I won't be chasing anything. I know what I want now and that is a relationship which has the perfect balance of closeness and space. That also has some security where you can go to each other for emotional support or problems.

For this to work, at least in my view. It NEEDS to start from zero, we need to actually date and not hook up to begin with, and we both need to want the same thing - that doesn't need to be right away, but it needs to be a mutual goal.


For any of the guys reading this, take it from my experience to know that you either want A. relationship or B. nothing. It's so important you lead the interactions, you make your intentions clear to her and you don't wait to fall into a relationship - it's not worth the emotional drain, this has really affected other areas of my life.

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My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html