First of all I want to say that the title of this thread is a tiny bit misleading.

I did end up with my wing and 2 girls at their place but it wasn't because of what I did - it was down to him but I will get to that later.

To think of the kind of things I am doing when I go out now compared to 4 months ago is amazing...

I opened direct. I opened plenty indirect. I told them they don't get spanked enough and I won't buy them drinks unless they make out with me.

I remmember I used to go to clubs and sit in the corner and never even talk to girls.

Tonight I actually decided to "punish" rude girls by staying in set and negging them until they were ready to kick me but I will explain why I did that as well.

I go out and meet my wing who is already brilliant at this. Been doing it for over a year. Always gets day 2s and shags and I saw how again tonight.

But I was surprised when I went into the bar at how unhappy he looked. He told me he wasn't feeling "it" tonight and he was clearly anxious about opening.

We get a drink and sit down and I see TWENTY girls behind me.

I decide what better way is there to start than open a 20 Set DIRECT!

Of course I knew that it was too loud for them all to hear me and it wouldn't go anywhere but I gave it a go anyway.

20 Set: Opened by telling them they are ALL gorgeous although I think only about 5 or 6 of them actually heard me. The girls that did said thanks and I smiled and went back to my wing. It was fun and a good way to get over anxiety!

We look around the downstairs area of the bar and see now obvious sets to open so go upstairs. The bar is very busy though so upstairs we walk past a sexy 4 Set - all at least 8s.

I tell my wing I am going to open.

4 Set: I open using the "set up" opener and when I ask if I can ask them a question (I have to stop doing that as I know I am not meant to although I like how it lets me neg right away when they always say "no" as they think its funny). So HBBrunette says no. I tell her I just met her and already we are arguing and her friends laugh.

She however is not my target. There is a very hot blonde behind her. I fire off my opener and tease them all a bit and then my wing comes in. Way TOO early in my opinion...

I let him talk to the girls and go get my drink and scarf where I left it before I opened. I come back and see he is struggling. He is clearly getting anxious which I find ununusual (although he does drink enough to help nerves but doesn't over do it.).

I come back in at a wierd angle to the girls and I am basically blocked out of the set due to the way the seats are arranged and they are sitting.

But I am now between HBBru and HBBlo so seeing my wing standing there playing with his cigarette which he can't light as we are inside I decide to ask them how they know each other then hit them with the rings routines.

It still surprises me how happy girls are to just give you their hands...

So I have HBBru hand in mine and I am telling her the routine and explaining to both the blonde and her. At some point I hit the Blonde with the "Your pretty but not my type" disqualifier and I get the open mouth shocked look and carry on with the routine.

They say it doesn't sound like them but I can tell they are interested enough for me to hang around except at this point my wing runs off and for some reason I decide to eject.

I still feel awkward negging and have no idea how I will isolate in practice.

I tell them it is nice to meet them and leave.

I then encourage my wing to open to get over his nerves and his first girl is one literally about to push the toilet door open when he opens her. She obviously doesn't need it that bad as she spends 10 minutes standing outside the toilet door talking to him.

He then opens a mixed set upstairs of 4 followed by a 3 set downstairs indirect. I then tell him to go direct and he opens a 3 set downstairs direct and gets a nice chat out of them.

We leave the bar and head for the club.

Now bear with me here as I opened lots of sets in the club and the order of them is mixed up but that doesn't really matter - I just hope I remmeber them all!

2 Set: I go open with the dye my hair blonde opener and they tell me not to and ask me where I am from. At this point my wing comes over and sits down next to the hotter girl and just starts talking to her.

He has this knack of just being able to build comfort so smoothly - and natural conversation flows which I simple have no idea how to do... its frustrating me lots!

The girl next to me bored of me asking her to guess (talk about short attention span!) sees the club manager and shouts at him and jumps up to talk to him. That comes across as odd and random to me but I sit there for a minute and decide to walk off leaving my wing. He remains with her friend.

I am now on my own so decide to find another set.

2 Set with sorta isolation:

I see 2 girls from the 20 set I opened in the bar and I open them with the blonde hair opener and the very hot blonde - lets call her HBfairy as she has a pink fairyish outfit on tells me I look good dark and I feel a massive IOI.

She looks me right in the eyes and says that. So I say hi and go into the rings routine. She puts her hand in mine and literally LEAVES it there.

I move my hand up and down and even rest it against the table and she is just resting it in my palm. I really don't know what I am meant to do here. She must have it in my hand for a good 3-4 minutes although it feels like forever! Even when I finish the routine and we are talking about where she is from and what she is studying her hand is in mine. Its wierd.

Her friend wandered off after I opener her but comes back and wants a hot dog. She isn't pulling her away or interupting but prob because I was so shocked my her obvious interest with her hand in mine I didn't do much except talk and she wanders over to her friend. I tell her its nice to meet her and her friend and walk off.

At the end of the night I approached her with her 3 friends and she asked me to take a photo of them (which I only did after I took a photo of my shoes) then tried to number close her - she said she had a bf which may or may not have been the truth BUT I know I messed up my chance to close her when I opened her.

2 Set "bitchiness returns"

So I see a 2 set of girls and open them with blonde hair again. They tell me I should stay dark haired and then I transtion and disqualify by telling them I am adopting them as my little sisters - they give me a wierd look and then start talking among themselves. So I neg them (I think both of them actually) and they tell me to go away.

Now normally I would get the hint and leave but I found the way they just blanked me as rude so I decided I would test my frame and my congruence and push them until they got annoyed. So I neg them again. Tell them they should be friendly to people they just meet.

My wing comes in. They insult his clothes and my shiny silver shoes. I don't insult them back but absurdify what they said about my shoes and they get more and more agressive. My wing runs away but I keep negging until they start interupting everything I say.

I try to run the sex accident story but they dont let me. So I decide that I lasted long enough without getting angry and staying calm and start talking to the guy sitting next to them.

This guy has NOTHING to do with them. He is just sitting there.

They immediately have a problem that I am not ignoring them. go figure...

They tell me to go away. I tell them I am not even talking to them.

And carry on talking to the guy.

They tell me to leave them alone. I look at them and tell them to stop interupting me and then they say something else and leave.

All in all a good test of my frame and fun for me.

I stay and chat to this guy for about 15 minutes about why I was hanging about taking their shit and not leaving and then see the 2 girls that are friends of the fairy girl.

I open them and ask them about their night. They tell me they ran out of money. I tell them they could still dance. No routines. One of the girl has bad hiccups so I tell her I will get her a glass of water if she compliments me. Her friend tells me I am nicely dressed or something. I wasn't expecting it from her and I go get some tap water. I chaf for a bit but my non-routines conversation is USELSS and I can't go anywhere with it.

Some random guy comes and sits down at the table and doesnt even talk to them and one of the girls asks him his name. Obvious IOI for him. At this point I see a camera flash and get up.

2 Set "Singer girls"

I see a flash and open these 2 very well dressed girls asking them if they took a photo of my shoes. I love how I can use my shoes to open... I don't know if I should but they work for me.

HBStrippy dress gives me a sarcastic comment in return like "why would I do that...?" but I know she hasn't actually looked at my shoes so I point them out and she understands my opener and is impressed by how shiny they are.

I realise now I didn't pick a target or neg either of them although I did do some disqualification.

We discuss the girls band and what the sing and then I run the rings routine and have both their hands in my hand. I use the sexually submissive ring finger and tell HBStrippy she is dominant in bed which she disagrees about.

Then I tell HBstrippy that her last boyfriend didn't spank her enough and she tells me she has a boyfriend now. So I tell her he doesn't spank her enough... and she looks at me and says "he is away right now...."

I guess I should have taken that as an IOI but it big time confused me. I didn't know what to do next.

We have some more small talk and HBStrippy wants a drink. She asks me to buy a drink. I tell her I only buy drinks for a girl if she makes out with me...

She doesn't say no but doesn't go for it so I tell her sorry I won't get one. She then tells me to go away. So I neg her and turn to her friend and go into the Ski accident sex story. HBStrippy tells me to leave but her friend HBHotblonde who has been very quiet so far tells her friend she wants to hear the story. So I tell it and finish and they laugh but then HBStrippy wants a drink so I say no unless she makes out with me and says "bye then".

The entire time this girl has been playing with her hair and IOI'ing me but I can't see anyway back so I shake HBHhotblondes hand and tell her its nice to meet her and turn to HBStrippy and do the same but she tells me she doesn't shake hands. So I hug her and then tell her "well u said you didn't shake hands" and then she tells me I have to hug her friend as well. So I do that and get a little peck on the cheek as well and turn around and with perfect timimg my wing walks up next to me so I turn and walk out.

We go down to the downstairs club area and I open a 2 set - they aren't attractive and are married but I run my opener do the rings routine and eject.

I then see a very hot girl sitting looking bored. Decide to go direct.

Direct 2 set (but friend is not paying attention).

Tell her she looks gorgous and say hi and she tells me her name and then I ask her what she has going for her other than her looks. She says "nothing". I realise I don't have enough attraction. So I go into the rings routine.

I should have probably IOD and negged her before but I run the routine and she looks bored so I wander off to another guy sitting near by...but before I do that my wing comes in to talk to her friend and once again without using routines he manages to get a 5-10 minute chat with her.

He never uses routines. I don't get it. It stumps me.

We then move to the next dancefloor area in the club and sit down.

I see a super hot brunette. Definately a 9 sit down near us. So I go direct and slide accross to her.

Direct 1 Set:

Open with you look adorable and make introduction and then ask her what she has going for her other than her looks. She laughs and asks me why I said that and I tell her that I want to know if she is more than just a pretty face as that is common.

She says something about a boyfriend but I ignore it and she starts qualifying herself to me about what she does. I can tell she is attracted and I am finding it interesting hearing her qualify herself to me but her boyfriend sits down next to her and I introduce myself make some small talk and head back to my wing.

It is now closing time so I make my way up the stairs I see a ton of girls alone near the dancefloor and know I should direct approach them but I don't for some reason.

As I go upstairs towards the exit I pass a blonde girl and tell her she looks gorgeous. She stops turns around and says "you too".

I hear it and get to the top of the stairs and I then realise what she said. I should have followed her down and re-opened her.

I am looking for my wing at this point. No where to be seen so I go up and down a few times and that same blonde girls walks past me on the stairs and a guy - who I guess is a friend says something cheeky.

I am accidently laughing at exactly the same time about something else and she turns and says something to me - I have no clue what but the way she looks at me is a definate "open me" but I just don't react.

I make my way out the club and call my wing. He is outside the kebab shop with 2 girls.

I make my way up to him and he says we are giving them a ride home. I tell him thats fine. They are NOT attractive but he is drunk and horny and although they do not have great bodies they are not ugly so I suppose I might be willing to shag one of them.

We drive back to their place and the entire time he is all over the short blonde in the back. I am convinced she is his target and so I get the other one.

When we get in things change though. Blonde wants to go to bed and Brunette is saying how she wanted to pull all night and has a thing for ginger guys like my wing.

I then tell her about Brad P's bathroom wank off technique and she invites my wing to do that with her now.

I am a bit annoyed at this point as it went from possible shag to me to him and the girl I thought was mine messing about.

Her friend interferes though and big time cock blocks then goes to bed.

I sit awkwardly for an hour with them both trying to figure out what he wants to do before telling them I am leaving.

I don't have much experience of being at random girls places so that is a first for me...

So problems still:

Not always picking target (although I did pick tonight on one occasion)
No isolation again
Not knowing how to respond to obvious IOIs/ or reacting too slow.
Not knowing how to respond to IOD's when going direct and getting a negative.
still not negging/disqualifying enough.
Not running a set until the end!

Positives:

Saying things I would never have imagined saying before!
AA is just floating away in the wind with the number of sets I opened this last week
I AM GETTING IOIs - which is good...

I am sure there are other positives but it is now 7am and I am too tired to think.

I have been thinking a bit more about what I did wrong and I have come up with 2 things that are obvious.

First of all:

I have been forgetting to FTC BEFORE transitioning. As in finish opener, and then "I have to get back to my friends BUT..." then into transition.

Been forgetting that.

Also when I have finished the opener I have been asking how they know each other. I don't need to in sets of girls. I don't need to know!

I think in both the bitchy girls I got recently it was because I asked a question when I finished my opener. A Normal boring chode question.

I should have used the mini-cold read transition of "you look like the good one and you look like the bad one" I believe firmly that would have got a laugh from even the bitchy girls I opened and would have reduced the bitch shield by being different from what guys do normally.

If anything I think my problems with those more defensive girls has been caused by me trying to me normal and ask normal questions before hitting another routine which hasn't worked as well.

I hope I don't forget that before I go out next time!

I would appreciate any feedback/suggestions on what certain things meant and how I could have reacted and/or improved.

Thanks.

I really hate the "I don't buy drinks for girls that don't make out with me" response. It might work on drunk girls, but it's just pushing it. It's needy. The standard "you buy me one first" works much better. If you want to give them a reason, make it a small DHV by saying something like "I only buy drinks for my friends" or "I only buy drinks for girls that I'm dating". Or you can make it C&F by asking her to polish your shoes or something. Don't ever use the word IF when answering.

I also think that you should be leaving the sets when they tell you to do so. First of all, it's over when that happens. No way to recover from it if they really mean it. Also, it lowers your social value. Someone sees the girls telling you to leave, your social proof is instantly gone forever.

Good to see you opening so many sets though. Practice makes perfect.