Guys, I'm telling you right now. If you are having trouble with keeping women interested, or communicating, or moving away from comfort and into other things, you have to stop complaining. Do not whine, do not complain, do not have negative emotions about anything, ever. Girls are not there to pat you on the back and tell you that you'll be ok, even if you would do the same. They do not want to hear about your problems, even if you really want to vent. Picking up is not the time, and even during a relationship, keep it to a MINIMUM. When you need to talk about things that bother you, do it with your MALE FRIENDS. Get it out of the way with them, but do NOT, by ANY MEANS take it to a woman. Everytime you catch yourself whining about something or being negative (you won't think you're whining, but you are), you absolutely need to SLAP YOURSELF IN THE FACE or at least pinch yourself. You need to learn to catch yourself when you slip into these habits. I want you to examine somebody who has a way with women, I"m pretty sure everyone knows at least one of these people. I want you to think about one time when they were actually negative and whiny, especially around a female. You don't see it happen, not with a natural. They intuitively know better. You might think you're releasing some pent up "emotion", but the woman will hear a whiner and a weakling, while another man will hear a wounded animal and sympathize, because we are not looking for strong men. You might have some legitimately fucked up stuff in your life, skeletons in your closet, whatever it may be, you need to remember that women want a strong man, not someone battling their own emotions. That can be a tough and fucked up pill to swallow, but its true. Sure, there might be some huge hearted woman out there (probably someone you're not attracted to) who can't wait to console you when you're feeling down, but most don't want a man with baggage. You might spend your entire life looking for one "normal" woman who can help you deal with your problems, and I'll tell you that there's a good chance you're going to die alone. Its not their problem, its yours. We are wired this way, so are they, and you need to toughen up. If you can't toughen up, then smarten up and know when and who to release your issues to. If you've ever sat around with the boys and had a drink, you know that almost everything is on the table, you can talk about whatever, well that is the time you should be talking about negative things if you absolutely have to. Sort those things out with men, not with girls.

There is a lot of stuff out there about "positive thoughts" and confidence and things like that, nobody can have positive thoughts all the time, so make sure you pick your times to have these negative thoughts and mental grindings. You need to examine yourself and log everytime you have a negative thought, whether you actually vocalize it or not. You will be in for a surprise about yourself. Everything that is going on in your head is coming out through your actions, it doesn't matter if you say it because it is effecting you. Saying it only matters in that it reveals your unattractive nature in no uncertain terms.


This is something I've learned from personal experience. I can't tell you how many times I've thought that the woman that was in my company would be a good person to talk about my personal problems/grievances with. Its a huge mistake. I made another thread called The Art of Not Talking About Yourself, while that certainly covers why revealing yourself is usually bad, I don't think it deals with the prevalence of negative thoughts and an ingrained idea that women are somehow "motherly" and want to sympathize with you. They do not. Women do not want to sympathize with you. Women do not want to sympathize with you. Women do not want to sympathize with you. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

_________________
The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

I think... you're right. My current girlfriend is pissing me off because I've got a lot of stress and she doesn't even take an interest. She also doesn't put out enough and whenever I bring it up, I definitely feel like I'm whining about it and she's put in the "mother" position. It is fucked up, but I think you're right and there's just not room for you to complain at the beginning of a relationship. I usually use this forum and my roommate/female friends to vent though.

I'm going to call her later today, is there a way to push to spend more time in a relationship for sex without it looking like whining, though? Only thing I can think of is put as much effort into pleasing me as I put into pleasing you, or I'm walking.

I've been in that boat. I've vented about things, and all she did was sit there and not say anything. Not a peep. Until I said something she disagreed with, then she took the time to be a bitch and try to belittle all of my problems because of one minor detail. Another time, I've talked about some lighter topics, sometimes about my ex and some of our disagreements & grievances, this girl constantly wanted to move the conversation forward and asked why everything got so whiny. It all comes back to negative emotions and thoughts, women judge things in whether they make them feel good or bad, not in whether some greater understanding, truth, or even closure can be drawn from them. Unless its their own situation, then of course they naturally care more to talk about themselves.

I don't think there is any room to complain, ever. I mean, you're asking for trouble if you do. There is no "free complaint pass", to put it bluntly, its going to DLV you. I don't know if there is an actual recovery from it, other than enough time to forget about it.

As far as not sounding whiny, women don't respect complainers so all I can say is, you should use "other means" to get her attention, i.e. jealousy. Its underhanded, sure, but putting a slight risk on the relationship to gain greater value from it is far, far, far better than putting a risk on your manhood AND relationship by being a straightforward "whiner", which from my experience will be the losing bet.


If I had to break it down to basics, people want certain things, and then people want certain things from certain people. If she isn't giving you what you want, look for it elsewhere. The jealousy and feelings of inadequacy should kick in if she is any part human. Put yourself in that position, if you get the feeling (or more than a feeling) that she is out with other guys getting things from them, you already know how that's going to hit you. The only difference is that we aren't really looking for "strong women", so they can afford to come off whiny, in fact most men would probably prefer that than the fucking games but its just a fact of life. Talk is cheap, don't tell her, show her through your actions. You can't talk to an animal, they don't understand. See what an animal does when you talk to it about your stress, if it resembles somebody, you know what kind of a "person" they are, and I use that term loosely. If it sounds like I'm saying they are inferior, maybe I do believe that in some way, but its mostly because they respond to different things. As easy as it is for women to pick up a guy and as many AFCs are out there, I'm sure they think most men are inferior too at some level.

_________________
The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

I wouldn't compare women to animals. But I do consider them... incomplete somehow. I told my girlfriend we need to talk. I whined my ass off because I just didn't care anymore and I wanted to get out all the shit she's doing wrong. She had her points, I had mine. We agreed to give into each other a little bit. I definitely felt weak for whining, but I just don't like to use a lot of game and I think being direct solved a lot of problems so they won't reappear, which is what I think happens if you're indirect. We'll see, but for sure I lost some attraction doing it.

The only alternative I can see from going indirect is to go cold direct. If you don't give me x, I will y. If she says no to x, then y right then and there, and don't waste any time. Now if you really don't want to leave her, that's why I advise indirect, you subtly suggest what it is that you want. Women are rarely ever direct, they expect you to read their minds, that's probably why there is so much going around about indirect i.e. jealousy, social proof, etc., it is a language they understand because they live almost entirely through subcommunication. Maybe that's just my crackpot theory, but I've found that airing your grievances is a quick way to chumpify yourself.

_________________
The best PUA advice is also the best fighting advice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ijCSu87 ... rn-1r-4-HM

It is a quick way to look like a chump, but it's quick. I hate having to wait days for something to change. I'm not sure what you mean by cold direct, but I definitely told her it's time she put in some effort or I'm leaving. We were still going in circles and she wouldn't give an inch so I told her I was going home and things progressed from there. After we reached an agreement, I told her to tell me something she likes about me since she's never said she liked anything and she told me she likes my confidence, so I must not have lost too much with my whining. I think if you're going to whine, then you better at least have something in mind you want her to do differently instead of just venting negativity. That's not good for anyone, even your friends. A girl I was talking to a month ago just gave me her number, so I'm no longer stressed about my situation at all.

And if you don't whine to your woman about what she's doing wrong, how can you expect her to fix it? It's not realistic to think she's going to correct whatever she's screwing up just because you avoid her when she does it and never say anything about it. It's better to say, "Hey, I really don't like it when you..." and move on. Just use it sparingly.

Bookmarked this page a long time ago and just found out about it right when I need it, thanks a lot Tundra, much respect!

Just to corroborate your theory: when I was a child I used to have older friends whom I looked upon as "heroes", because they always seemed to have something inspiring to say regarding my problems and everything else. They never talked about themselves, so I was inclined to think that they never ever had problems of any sort.

Now that I think back about it, I realize they didn't really say 100% awesome stuff 100% of the time, but the point is, they LOOKED like they knew what they were doing, they LOOKED like they knew everything about life, and I couldn't help feeling admiration for them.

The only times they asked me my opinion about a problem of theirs, I immediately realized, "oh so they're humans after all, not that kind of super-hero I thought they were". And my "opinion" of them inconsciously dropped a little bit every time. It's not a rational thing, I know, it's more a subconscious-related type of respect.

So yeah, I think looking like the strong kind of person can really help when trying to win appreciation from others, whether we like it or not.