Many things got me thinking and it seems to me that, not trying to generalise or anything but all the big names in the PUA community are in some way geeks or nerds and have similar personal stories of how they were not at all in with the popular kids at school, in fact loners in some cases, not that there is anything wrong with that at all because I am one to talk, but who at least sorted themselves out and mastered the arts of seduction.

Mystery, Neil Strauss, Adam Lyons (with his open love of D&D), Gambler, Tyler Durden, the Daygame team and many more all seem to admit sharing many tales of unhappiness from their younger days of not standing a chance with women but who transformed themselves. And what's more, reading The Game where Strauss refers to Tyler Durden as "possibly the biggest closet nerd of all" in his description of how Tyler created the concept of AMOGging and that AMOGs are a constant thorn in the side of all sargers with nothing more humiliating than being made fun of by the AMOG in front of the girls you are trying to pick up and have him remind you that you are "just a closet nerd faking it", and that out-alphaing which does sound like the classic Jocks versus Nerds scenario - something that definately does appeal to me personally, the satisfaction of beating the jock/AMOG at picking up.

I am not trying to pee all over things, far from it because I do also view the whole PUA thing as a self-improvement lifestyle and goes a great way towards boosting the self-esteem of those who sadly feel as though they have always been socially behind others, always on the outside looking in. But does anyone else think that there is a bit of a happy ending type story to all this pick-up business in which the repressed geeks become cool, or something like that?

Fuck yeah it is. Most of these guys, like you said, were unsuccesful with women. I can give you many reasons for it; Social anxiety, shyness, low self esteem, lack of confidence. Such things are created during childhoo or maybe the teenage years where most guys spend their time playing video-games, reading comuic books and watching porn online. The more anti-social they get, the worse their perfomance outside is. I guess we wonder why some ugly guys end up with hot chicks after we speculated it was cause of his money. Or why skinny guys attract girls. Nerds in general delved into the tecniques of seduction and the art of sexuality to try and bring women into their beds. In a way, yes. Most of these guys wereborn lacking skill, so they decided to make themslves earn it. They are "closet nerds". But nerds who get laid!

_________________
"If you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried."

Damn right too! I was always a geek who was crap at sports and socialising in my teen years so was more introverted and into old video games as well and just as I was thinking I was out of my shell I could only look in real bitterness at how all the super-cool AMOGs get the 9s and 10s with minimal effort which motivated me, long before disovering PUA, to get back at the "cool people".

I don't think this true and I'm an example of how someone who is reasonably 'popular' can fall under the wayside and before you know it... time is not on your side.

Throughout high school and college, I partied. Partied a lot. My friends and I even sponsored parties, many which got quite crazy. In my case, what happened is that I simply never escalated women when things got physical. I got scared. Literally, I could have pussy sitting infront of me, eye fucking me, grabbing me and I would not escalate. It becomes a self-inflicting problem because the more you reject the more comfortable you become with rejecting first.

I became so scared of rejection, not wanting to EVER get rejected that I would push people away so that they were unable to reject me first. I never realized this until a friend called me on it.

This 'game' in my opinion, so much isn't revenge of the nerds as it is people who just simply never became comfortable with women. There may be social introverts here but I think a lot of us lead/led rather 'normal' lives but were unable, or unwilling, to move forward in one specific aspect.

I like this question, really, it makes perfect sense.

If you think about it, being a nerd has far better advantages than being a say, jock. A nerd has the intelligence to surpass high school and hit university where they can obtain the cirriculum to get a financially beneficial job and improve on their social skills. I wasn't a nerd per se but I always did and always have had social and inner problems when conversing with others. I am however, slowly, but surely improving.

On the topic of getting revenge. Sure, it makes perfect sense. I was bullied and because of that my inner self was broken to pieces. I did have one beautiful girlfriend though and she kept the my jigsaw personality from falling out the box. Even though we no longer speak, I couldn't thank her enough for her help back in those years and if I could learn 100% fail proof pick up just so I could have sex with the bullies' girlfriends in front of them I would. But, this is reality, thinking like that has no benefits. I acknowledge my lust for revenge against them and social engineering in general and explain to myself that I will one day rise above and rule the one place that will be most powerful - myself. I hope you all achieve this as well.

_________________
"At the end of the day these are women's lives we're dealing with, not mere entertainment."

"We are what we repeatedly do. excellence therefore is a habit and not an act."

I wonder if learning from in a school type method (books, theory, practical) isn't just the preferred method of learning for the average nerd?

Even if "normal" guys (with social skills learned in a more normal way other than through the pua community) can learn from the pickup industry, I think it is mostly directed towards nerds. And even if you are not a nerd when you start looking into all theories, techniques and such, you will probably become one. And if you dig too much into all this crap (yes, I do think most of it is pure scam) you will probably just spoil your entire "game" and become even worse with women than before.

Why do I say this? First of all, "they" (all "gurus") make it sound much more complicated than it is. They present tons of techniques and tricks. It gives the impression that there is still more to master, you will never become satisfied and feel that you are "good enough". So by digging into all this stuff you will become a nerd. In fact, all there is to it is phobia training, social competence and working on your "inner game".

Second, to become good at pickup you need to practice. The motivation to practice is to see results, and the desire to see results will raise your expectations and will make you needy and desperate, which will generate even less results, making you feel bad about yourself. This in turn will transform you into that anti-social guy you did not want to become. The right way to gain experience is through normal social interaction without expectations.

Being relaxed, confident and able to seduce women comes naturally for me when I stop trying, and I don't care about results, not being "in the game". But how are you supposed to "not care" when all you do, if you are "in the game", is caring? It is a paradox to me.

I would say it does help to get lay. but it wasn't what I really wanted.

_________________
peacock gears

Ideally you would be doing things that you want to do anyways, like going out socializing or dancing or partying, whatever. But it does seem like a lot of us go out strictly to sarge, and circle the waters like predators looking for sets to open--the end goal obviously being to get our dick's wet. Once you have developed some proficiency and abundance in pick up, then you can truly be free from caring about the outcome, because you know you'll be getting laid by somebody one way or another.

When I sarge I don't have expectations that I'll be getting laid. That leads to dependency on outcome and disappointment. I'll consider it successful if I get a k-close, a number, or even a pleasant conversation with a couple girls. I've been laid before and I'll get laid again. Any set, or any given night is just a drop in the bucket and of little consequence in the long run. I guess what I'm saying is that you need to care about going out and trying, but don't care about the outcome.

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

I don't call this PUA stuff a revenge from the nerds. I view it simply as a tool or knowledge to transform myself into better position with girls, and social circles in general. For instance, I used to think about myself as someone who is helpless with women and will not get any chance to date the girl that I like much. But, with the knowledge of seduction, I hopefully can transform myself into someone who can choose which girl to date.