I've been dating on 'The Pro Tour' for the last decade or so:
That is to say, overwhelmingly my playmates are 'professionally beautiful' and as such, they are not seeking validation or affirmation from anyone because of their looks.

Therefore, the Mystery Method (and its spin-offs/variations) tend to have no application in this arena. Those methods are for attracting women who are 'low self-esteem' attention seekers, the kind of girls who PRESENT themselves as models, (maybe even have a modeling portfolio card, and have modeled a couple of times!) but in actuality they are dental hygienists, salon receptionists, civil servants... Girls who lacked the courage, looks, or fortune to be able to make a career out of their demeanor, but WISHED they could have. (Truly beautiful women who have OPTED not to work in looks-dependent careers tend also to be unaffected by negs - it's exclusively women who derive their validation from appearing to be 'as hot as' professional beautiful women who respond to negging)

In any event, I've been using this simple method for bringing home exotic dancers, models, actresses, pornstars and other similar girls for nearly twenty years, across cultures, languages, and continents.

I remember explicitly the first dancer I took home from a club...

I was 20 years old. The club was called The House of Lancaster, a long-standing peeler-joint in my hometown, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Her name was Irina, she was originally from Odessa, was also 20 years old, and she was stunning. Breathtaking, really...

This was in the late '80s, and 'lap dances' were unheard of in my hometown where instead we had 'Table Dances' which involved the girls' carrying around little foot-stool sizes "tables" from customer to customer, upon which they did their entirely non-contact shows.

She was having a slow night, the club wasn't busy at all, and I was sincerely interested in learning about her, since she was beautiful, exotic, had moved to Canada on her own from Russia, and clearly had the lights on behind her ocean blue eyes...

She wandered off a half-dozen times over the course of the evening to attempt to get dances, to do a stage-show, or hit the ladies' room, but kept returning to talk with me. I had just received my Massage Therapy certificate, and was lovingly bestowing a fabulous massage on her yummy back an shoulders while she was telling me her story - but the massage wasn't the kicker: She was loving the opportunity to share her experiences with an interested audience.

By this point I had already learned that the SECRET to becoming more-and-more attractive to women was to be a good listener, honestly interested in what they have to say - and that remains true now, and will forever, no doubt...

It was a Sunday, and in those days bars in Ontario legally had to stop serving at 11pm on Sundays, so by the time her shift was over, we were both still wide awake and enjoying each-other's company, so I invited her to come home with me. She declined, explaining that she needed to walk her dog or he'd freak-out and destroy her apartment.

I volunteered to drive her home, and offered to keep her company while she walked her dog (a HUGE King Doberman, named something Russian I can't recall) and she was delighted with that idea.

Her dog liked me, which was very important to her, and we spend the night having playful sex and a little sleep at her place, and I walked the Doberman on my own in the morning , to give her extra time to get herself ready for school. (She was dancing to support herself and cover her tuition at one of Toronto's community colleges, where she was in business school.)

We hooked up at least once a week for the next few months, although I would have LOVED for it to be more frequently, but she had work and school and homework every night, and I had my own work and school to deal with too.

By the summer, I had taken a gig in Manhattan, which cut down our visits to less than once a month (her Canadian students' Visa wouldn't let her into the States) and remember, this is pre-cellphones, pre-discount long distance calling, and pre-email...

SO I did what any normal, healthy, red-blooded male would do in my position... I went midtown to The Metropole, and picked up a new stripper girlfriend there! (Her stage-name was Trixie, I don't remember her real name...)
Basically I did the exact same thing I had done in Toronto - chatted and flirted an learned about the girls, their interests, their history, their dreams, and I REALLY LISTENED, becoming engrossed in their stories... And then I'd get invited out after closing the club, to head over to late-night food with the dancers - and then home with one or another of them!

So this has been a recurring theme throughout my life, and when I'm in a new town, where I expect to be only briefly, I'll hit the local peeler bars, looking to meet new hotties who're DESPERATE to meet a good guy who's interested in what they have to say, not just how they look - and offers them NON-JUDGMENTAL ACCEPTANCE.

Here endeth the lesson

Johnny Soporno
Whirled Traveler

Hey Johnny, nice post. That's cool you're from Toronto, although strip clubs have changed a lot since you left! Anyow, the closest experience I could relate to this was this one Romanian stripper that I was able to build up a similar rapport over a few lunch hours (there wasn't too much other than the strip club near my work...) and I knew her whole story. I was engaged at the time, so we never closed the deal or anything, but she told me on several occasions that the the option was there. Anyhow, I bring this up because you mentioned you met that girl on a Sunday (not prime-time). My question is do you need to go at off-peak times? I would imagine that things might be tougher when it's a busy regular night and the girls are all business, no?

Heh - I never really 'left' - I still spend a few months a year at least in town; I have a home in an ideal 'hood: walking distance from The Brass Rail, the Zanzibar, and Filmores [ie, 10 mins bicycle ride from University of Toronto, 5 mins walk from Ryerson University]
Fundamentally, there are a few 'gravy-train' days each month for most towns, where all the girls who will be at work will be expecting to make their week's worth of profits easily... These are usually near industry-association/convention days, and other fairly predictable times.

If you're going to a club EXPLICITLY to befriend the entertainers, be sure you are respectful of their needs; don't try to consume much of their time when there's lots of genuine work to do!

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

Here's a few snapshots to give some comfort to you guys that I'm not making this shit up

1) 2)
1) Violet & Angie with me at a club in Hollywood
2) Violet & Eva outside my place in Toronto

3) 4)
3) Eva and Mystique with me at a club in Toronto
4) Mystique and me at her place in Toronto

5)6)
5) Eva modeling
6) Mystique modeling

7)8 )

7) Violet modeling
8 ) Angie modeling


Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

P.S. For more of my photoalbums, (NOT SAFE FOR WORK/SCHOOL!) click below:
Album1 http://www.flickr.com/gp/63769506@N00/UKW5Tr] Album2 http://www.flickr.com/gp/13759541@N00/T8G0Cg] Album3 http://www.flickr.com/gp/98658891@N00/10k657]

Professional Beautiful girls? I guess you could call such girls that. I just call them adult models/entertainers.


I have run into these girls more than once, mostly the higher end escorts at work. It always cracks me up as no matter how hard the escort tries to blend in and be discreet about it I can always spot them. Most make the mistake of being overly friendly with me. Tho I don't game such girls as they aren't the girls I like to date due to their jobs. I would have bit of a problem with a girl who's job is to please other guys in some fashion.

Saying that I agree with Johnny here in that you do need to be a good listener to get the girl. And this goes for any girl. Not just the adult models.

Completely worthless advice. Sorry, but it sounds exactly like the people who say "the secret to getting girls is to be yourself!"

How about some actual advice about how to listen?
How do you force yourself to be actually interested in their story? How do you demonstrate that you're interested in them? What kinds of questions do you ask?

_________________
And I lift my glass to the awful truth
Which you can't reveal to the years of youth
Except to say it isn't worth a dime

Feel free to use whatever term you like

I chose the term 'Professionally Beautiful' to explicitly describe women who can and do make careers off their 'hotness', whether as models, actresses, spokesmen, escorts, or what-have-you.
Heh - That's a really negative attitude, full of limiting beliefs

If a genuinely sexy and beautiful girl exhibits interest in you, she MUST be working

How do you know they are escorts, in that case? Because they are so hot looking, or because they explicitly quote you a rate?

Seriously, AT LEAST 50% of the hottest girls over age 21 that you might see out at night in any major North American city (and a greater percentage overseas!) have worked in the direct sex-trade at SOME point in their lives, be it as a model, stripper, 'kept-woman', escort, or prostitute... they just USUALLY don't talk about it much, if at all.

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

P.S. when you demonstrate yourself to be a GOOD LISTENER, and offer non-judgmental acceptance to beautiful women, they will gladly open-up to you, and tell you their 'deepest, darkest secrets' - things like "how they paid their way through law school" and cute stories about the TWO simultaneous sugar-daddies who supported them through med school and residence... REALLY EYE OPENING STUFF![/i]

All advice is worthless, Yillan, unless you take it and apply it
Hmmm - you need to go check out this here-vp172268.html#172268 - which I'm SURE will help you. You will finally understand WHAT THAT ADVICE REALLY MEANS!
You've gotta be fucking kidding me, right?

Ask the girls about things SHE is interested in, DON'T interrupt her and don't jump-in with some new story about yourself which you were reminded of by her response. (Ie, if she tells you she loves animals, DO NOT JUMP IN AND TELL HER ABOUT YOUR DOG; ask her if she has any favourite types, etc... keep HER TALKING, and you, keep listening.)
RELAX! - if you aren't actually interested, excuse yourself and move on...
DON'T WASTE YOUR ENERGY ON SOMEONE YOU AREN'T INTERESTED IN! DUH!
See above

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

lol. I don't assume every girl I see on the street or in the bar is an escort. But when am I at work and I see a hot 20 something for the most part dolled up and she is with a guy that is 40+......(I think you get the picture lol)
I won't say 50%, but certainly a fair amount have. But over seas I don't doubt that its higher than 50% most probably like 60%.
Its impossible to to be completely non-judgmental. But acceptance is something that can be done. And I certainly agree that being a good listen can bring out such info out of girls.

No argument there. I was more annoyed at the people who were saying that this thread was great when you really didn't say much of anything. Be interested in her, well, great...be yourself.
Blah, I suppose I'll reply in the OTHER thread, to keep the topics straight ;)
No, I'm not kidding you. That's something I would consider to be useful advice, someone who doesn't know how to listen could take and apply it. Or someone who doesn't realize that they're not listening might think "oh! I do jump in with my own stories frequently, maybe I should stop". Or maybe it won't, but at least there's something specific to concentrate on.
Of course. This question related to one of my problems...I'm simply not interested in the vast majority of people I meet.

_________________
And I lift my glass to the awful truth
Which you can't reveal to the years of youth
Except to say it isn't worth a dime

Actually, the value to be found in the OP is in two discrete aspects; first of all, that encouraging a woman to speak (engaging her in conversation where SHE is contributing) NO MATTER HOW DESIRABLE SHE IS, will make you more attractive, compelling, and interesting; and secondly that women who are USED to being sought-after for their looks are virtually always starved for genuine and sincere conversations, because the guys are so busy trying to seem 'impressive' (high value) or kissing their asses.
Ok, I can see what you mean, now. Sorry, I presumed everyone already knew how to shut-up and listen!

I've been coaching guys for nearly 20 years, on four continents, and I have never once actually needed to explain the process of listening to anyone in-person, and I didn't take into account that many forum-users might never have actually spoken to real live women before. My bad.
That's not a problem, it's a situation:

If you want to find yourself amongst people who'd interest you, you'll need to change your situation.

You might try situating yourself in new places, amongst people who will be interesting to you. Perhaps move cities, change careers, or enroll in courses at universities which cover topics which appeal to you.

Or alternatively, enhance your education into new areas where you know that people YOU FIND ATTRACTIVE will be interested? There's countless more out there that you don't know still left to learn; perhaps you can seek out some examples of subjects which you might develop an interest in which ALSO would appeal to women you're after?

Johnny Soporno
Worthy Playboy

I suppose it's my turn to say that I just assumed everyone already knew that.
People don't interest me because of what they're interested in. A doctor would interest me the same as a stripper as a casino dealer. They're interesting because of how they think, and how willing they are to challenge me. Most people I run into don't challenge me, or the way they think isn't very interesting.

_________________
And I lift my glass to the awful truth
Which you can't reveal to the years of youth
Except to say it isn't worth a dime

Well, I certainly don't mean to challenge you!

I guess you were right before, when you listed this amongst your problems.

Johnny Soporno
Irony IS my nourishment

See, now you have my interest...trying to figure out how that applies to what I said...And how irony fits in with it all.

_________________
And I lift my glass to the awful truth
Which you can't reveal to the years of youth
Except to say it isn't worth a dime