When picking up girls, most PUA's look for IOI, (Indicators Of Interest)... For me i dont use these because each girl has different bodylanguage cues, it is alot easier to spot IOD, (Indicators Of Disinterest). There are 3 main points to look out for opposed to IOI's which their are hundreds of points to look out for!

These three main IOD's apply to most women regardless to what the nature of what the interaction is or what the girls personality is.

1) If im speaking to a girl and then she kind of backs off, leans slightly back its normally a sign of Disinterest so the guy should take a step back and work on a bit more with the comfort building stage before sexual escalation!

2) A girl whos looking over your shoulder to see who else is coming is a clear and blatent sign that shes just not interested

3) The next one is where the girl who is saying "wheres my friends" and shes looking around for them OR shes looking for anyone else to speak too apart from you!

These 3 signs are clear cut bodylanguage cues to say 'Im not intested, leave me alone'. In all three of these scenarios the common denomenator is that the girls avoid eye contact at all cost! Looking for all 3 of these DOI are very concrete, anything else that occurs still means IOI's.

Bodylanguage experts say to look out for IOI for example, what way the feet are pointing, arms being folded, legs are crossed, closed answers to questions ect complicates what to look for so it stands to reason that just looking for 3 IOD seems alot more simplified and effective!

To sum up, IOI are different from girl to girl, personalities differ and alot more bodylanguage cues are different from each personality but only 3 IOD are needed to pick up girls!

I completely disagree with this tactic, you have no idea why someone has certain body language. If a women leans away she maybe tired from work or she may not be impressed with the topic. You must detect why you lost interest or why she did something. If they are looking for a friend maybe it is only because she doesn't have a lot of social interaction and although attracted to you nervous with the situation.

In order for you to judge her baseline behavior you merely have to pay attention to her behavior in how she interacts with others. Very simple and doesn't require much effort. Just pay attention to her behavior and look for CHANGES in her behavior that show attraction. If she is a normally flirtatious girl she maybe more flirtatious with you or even less flirtatious with you(she gets anxious and freezes when she likes someone).

It takes time to get good at reading body language but well worth the effort. I suggest you not make general judgements or you will not be successful at reading the true message or meaning of her body language. The why of body language (often related to timing) matters just as much as what the body language is saying.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

I agree, you should have a better knowledge of body language and am well aware that bodylanguage is 7% is verbal communication.

38% of it depends on our intonation, or the sound of our voice. For instance: A shaky, uneven voice may suggest that a person is shy, intimidated, or dishonest. A clear, loud voice may indicate that a person is confident.

The largest chunk of communication is body language, which takes up the remaining 55%. These statistics show that a person who knows how to control their body and voice is considered more appealing than someone who knows only a mouthful of pick-up lines and crowd pleasers.

Hand body language
Hands have 27 bones and are a very expressive part of our anatomy. The give us enormous capability as an evolved species in how we handle our environment.
Reading palms is not just about the lines on your hand. After the face, hands probably the richest source of body language.
... It is also worth noting that gestures with the hands vary significantly across cultures and an 'innocent' hand signal can get you arrested in another country.
A hand signal may be small, perhaps betraying subconscious thinking. It may also be exaggerated or done with both hands to emphasize the point.
Holding
Cupped hands form a container which can hold gently. Gripping hands can hold tightly. Hands can hold both individually or together (giving an exaggerated effect).
Cupped hands can symbolize delicacy or hold a fragile idea. They may also be used for giving. Gripping can show possessiveness, ownership and desire (the tighter the fist, the stronger the feeling).
Hands may also hold the self, such as when people hold their own hands, typically for comfort. Wringing the hands indicates more extreme nervousness.
Holding the self can also be an act of restraint. This can be to let the other person talk. It can also be used when the person is angry, effectively stopping them from attacking.
The two hands can show different desires, for example with one forming a fist and the other holding it back, restraining the desire to punch the other person.
Note also that people who are lying often try to control their hands, and when they are kept still (often holding one another), you might get suspicious. Another sign can be holding them behind the back. As ever, these are only possible indicators and you should also look for similar signs.
Hands may also be used to hold items such as pens or cups, which may be used as comfort objects, for example where a person hugs a cup (the cup represents the person, so they are effectively hugging themself). Holding an item with two hands effectively creates a closed position.
Holding imaginary objects as they are talked about can show importance. Things which are important (and perhaps with fear of loss) are held close and tight. Things which are not wanted are held further away (or even tossed away).
Even ideas may be held. The bigger and more important the idea, the wider the arms are held. A common size is as if they are holding a basketball -- this is useful as you can give it to other people. A wide-armed hold may indicate the whole world or something massive.
Items may also be for distracting activity that releases nervous energy, such as fiddling with a pen, clicking it on and off, or doodling with it.
Control
A hand with palm down may figuratively hold or restrain the other person. This can be an authoritative action ('Stop that now') or may be a request ('Please calm down'). This also appears in the dominant hand-on-top handshake.
A palm facing outward towards others fends them off or pushes them away in a more obvious way than the palms-down signal ('Stop. Do not come any closer!').
A pointing finger or whole hand tells a person where to go ('Leave now!').
Greeting
Hands are often used in greetings. The most common form of greeting is shaking hands, of which there are many different forms.
This is one of the few times we are allowed to touch the other person and it may get used to send various signals.
Dominance is shown with hand on top, strength, prolonged holding ('I decide when to let go') and holding the person with the other hand.
Affection is shown with speed and duration of shake, touching with the other hand and enthusiastic smiles. The similarity between dominant and affection handshakes leads to tricky situations where a dominant person pretends to be friendly.
Submission is shown with a floppy hand, palm up and which is sometimes clammy and with a quick withdrawal.
Most handshakes use vertical palms to show equality, are firm without being crushing and for a very exact period (so both know when to let go). Waving is also used for a greeting and may be done at a distance. Salutes are sometimes used, but mostly only in the military, where their style is strictly prescribed.


Shaping
Hands can carve the air, shaping what the person is talking about or meaning. They can thus create visual metaphors out of literally nothing.
A man talking may shape a fish he caught. He might also carve out the shape of his ideal woman. Other gestures can shape more crudely, indicating holding and moving sexually significant body parts.
Cutting
The side of a flat hand can appear as a knife, cutting the air like a karate chop. The cutting hand may strike the other palm, creating visual and aural impact.
A side-swiped cut with palm down tells others to stop what they are doing, for example when a person on stage asks the audience to stop clapping so they can speak. A short side swipe may also signal 'no' in any conversation.
Cuts can signal aggression, particularly when coupled with an aggressive face. They may also indicate decisiveness, chopping with each point. A side-swiped cut can chop away someone else's argument.
Striking
The hand can strike openly, with the palm or closed as a fist. The fist can strike forwards, sideways or downwards. One hand is often used for symbols as two hands as fists can be an invitation to fight (two hands held inwards can also indicate extreme tension).
Fist shapes and movements are often symbols of inner aggression. When moved towards a person, even a small amount, they signal aggression towards that person. A shaking fist signifies a strong desire to strike someone. Punching the air indicates triumphal excitement.
Covering
Hands can hide things. When people do not want to hear something, they put hands to ears. When they do not want to look, they cover their eyes. When they want to say something but feel restrained, they put their hands to their mouth. A hand may also cover a rudely open mouth, which may be opened in such as surprise or a yawn.
Hands covering the mouth when speaking may be an indicator of lying, although it may also just indicate uncertainty.
Hands can cover other things. A hand to heart may seek to protect it from shocking harm. A hand to the groin may protect from dangerous attack. Hands can also cover one another. Sometimes a tense fist may be covered by the other hand.
Giving
Outstretched palms may offer something to another person. Held with palms faced towards one another they might hold something large. Held upwards they openly proffer an idea.
They may also show that nothing is being concealed, giving what I have, which is nothing.
A single offered hand is the start of the handshake.
Asking
Palms offered upwards are a common plea gesture, as if asking for alms. Palms downwards may ask a person to calm down.
Palms up or at 45 degrees and then pulled towards the body seeks to bring others closer to you in an attenuated beckoning gesture.
Hands with palms pressed together indicate a more anxious pleading. This gesture may be done with fingers upwards in a clear prayer position ('Please do not harm me!'), and possibly thrust towards the other person. With fingers pointing down, this may be more concealed or a less anxious desire for agreement. A variant of this is to have fingers interleaved, but otherwise making the same shape and movement.
Rubbing
Rubbing the hands together can mean that the person is cold. It also means the person is feeling particularly gleeful about something. This can be a shared benefit and be used in a conspiratorial way.
When they do this less obviously and more slowly, they might thinking that they are going to benefit at the expense of someone else. Watch also for small smiles and defocused eyes as they imagine a rosy future (at least for them).
Rubbing the face and particularly the chin can indicate thinking, evaluating and deciding.
When a part of the body is sore, the person may rub it. This also happens when that part of the body is tense, for example the neck or abdomen, and can thus be a signal of anxiety.
Light stroking of the body can be a romantic invitation, particularly if the erogenous areas (or nearby) are touched. This says 'I would like you to do this' and can be very arousing.
Thinking
When the fingers are pressed together forming a steepled shape, pointing upwards, the person may well be thinking, evaluating or deciding. This may also be done with just index fingers pressed together and other fingers interlinked ('the church'), with all finger-tips touching ('the cage') or with fingers interlinked.
The steepled position forms a barrier against the other person and may be held lower when the person wants to connect more, such as when they are listening.
A subtler version of the evaluative position is with the hand supporting the head but with the index finger up the side the of the face. The middle finger may cover the mouth ('I'm not ready to talk yet').
These fingers-up positions may include touching of the mouth or chin with the fingers, which may indicate the person is thinking about saying something but is not yet ready to speak out loud.
The fingers may also be all intertwined and typically held under the chin. Again, this is a thinking and evaluating signal.
Hands clenched can be a self-restraining act, effectively holding the person back from speaking until they are ready.
Supporting
Hands may be used to support the head or even the body when leaning.
Hands wrapped around the cheeks with elbows on the table indicates a heavy head and the person may be sleepy or bored. This may also be indicated with a single hand propping up the chin or side of the head.
The hands may also lightly support the head, either as a single hand gently under the chin or with fingers intertwined with elbows on table and chin touching the fingers. Particularly when looking at the other person, this says 'look at my face, isn't it nice' and may thus be an enticing position.
A simple rule is that the more that the head is supported, the more the person is bored. When they are interested in what others are saying, support is light.
Hiding
Hands are often used in communication and hiding the hands may indicate a desire not to communicate or not to collaborate, saying 'I don't want to talk with you' or 'I do not agree with you'.
This may be done in a deliberate gesture of defiance, such as stuffing hands in pockets. Liars may hide their hands in fear that they will give themselves away.
Hiding hands may also be a position of listening, sending the message 'I do not want to talk because I want to listen to you.'
Putting hands in pockets or behind the back can also be due to just feeling relaxed and not needing to talk.
Touching
The hand may touch any part of the body in a whole range of situation.
Perhaps the most common reason for touching oneself is self-affirmation ('I am here. I am real. I am ok.') and related anxiety. Anxiety can be related to concern for the outer world or the inner world of thoughts and forecasts.
Touching is also used in romantic situations, where parts of the body may be lightly touched or stroked in simulation of desired or suggested action by the other person. The more erotic the parts being touched, the stronger the signal is sent.
Touching can also be a form of punishment, for example when a person slaps their head ('Bother - I forgot!').
Touching the other person can be an act of domination or of friendship, for example a hand on the shoulder whilst telling them off adds authority, whilst a gentle touch on the arm when sympathizing demonstrates concern for them.
Preening
Preening is a common action as the person brushes their hair and clothes, figuratively making themselves look more attractive and sending the signal 'Aren't I beautiful!' This is thus says 'Please like me' and may be a romantic invitation, a signal of superiority or indicate feelings of vulnerability.
Picking at bits of fluff clothes often shows disapproval as the person figuratively picks apart your argument.
Weighing
Cupped hands may be used to indicate weight, which often is used as a metaphor for importance.
Single-handed weighting bounces the cupped hand up and down, for example when an argument is being proposed.
Two hands are used to indicate discussion of A vs. B. Watch which hands seems to hold the heavier weight -- this will be the one which the person thinks is most significant.

This is my personal notes on just hand Gestures.....this doesnt exclude all other body parts, theirs just proberly too much bodylanguage to remember all of it! Chances are you proberly havent read all of it. If you are willing to learn the 98000 bodylanguage cues that exist in the world.....good luck, im all about speed seduction to which my IOD have been succesful in same night lays, 2minute kiss and number closes...... but i clearly agree the more body language you know would be better!

You listed off a ton of similar hand motions and whatever, but keep in mind that the hands LIE. Feet, torso, and microexpressions are your most honest part of body language, all 3 are controlled on a subconscious level. Looking for preens, submissive signals, and eye contact is more important then to look at a girl moving away.

While I don't know 98000 directly, I can tell you how someone is feeling from a look at them. I can tell whether they are anxious, happy, afraid, angry, sad, disgusted, contempt, surprise, excited, want to stay, go a direction, attracted, uncomfortable, lying, etc. You can't learn 98,000 different things and say oh that means that. That means that only in certain situations in other situations it doesn't mean even close to the same thing.

Understanding attraction, why people do what when they are attracted, or why people do what when they are UNCOMFORTABLE(which in your case can be disinterest), is just as much if not more important then learning the signs. Then you understand people on a whole knew level, you are not just an encyclopedia on something. Know the science and you will understand everything on a much higher level.

All you need to understand is self comforting for someone who is anxious, you don't need to know each and every way to self comfort just understand the action, why people do it. After that you gain a small list basic gestures and see them at work, after that you understand the action, and know how to recognize it, you learn to point that action at a why.

The one thing I do like about your style is it ASSUMES the attraction which I can appreciate. However, me being such a lover of body language, I refuse to just assume 3 "disinterest" actions mean she is unattracted. In fact it is disappointing that anyone would make that assumption.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

How is it easier to spot an IOD when you even say every girl's body language is different. Because if each girl displays different variants of IOI's wouldn't they do the same for an IOD?
Sorry but I have to totally disagree with this. No two girls are the same, not even twins. Saying that all girls share the EXACT same IOD's is far from the case. Body language isn't universal to the extent you seem to make it. Yes people do show similar body language but no one shows the exact same body language.
All of these "IOD's" can be read in different ways. I think you need to realize that when it comes to body language the context of which it is done in makes a difference in how you read it and what it means. You can't make blank statements about them and say they will always mean this. A good example is a girl playing with her hair, she may be doing it because she is nervous or is bored or is interested in you, but you need to take in all of her body language to really know what it means. If she is engaging you in conversation and is leaning forward more than likely she is interested in you. The same applies with your for sure "IOD's" as I can think of situations where those will not be IOD rights off the bad.
That's the thing they are not concrete, nothing in body language is concrete.
Your 3 IOD theory is interesting, tho in my opinion not sure it will work out that well. Because at any given moment a girl can show an IOD or even 3 but at the same time show 3 IOI's. And such you could be writing the girl off just because she showed three IOD's but you could have saved it. Now if a girl shows strong signs of IOD and very little if any IOI's then I think it be safe to say she ain't interested.

Your 3 IOD theory is interesting, tho in my opinion not sure it will work out that well. Because at any given moment a girl can show an IOD or even 3 but at the same time show 3 IOI's. And such you could be writing the girl off just because she showed three IOD's but you could have saved it. Now if a girl shows strong signs of IOD and very little if any IOI's then I think it be safe to say she ain't interested. [/quote]

yeah but girls are ruled mostly by their emotions so wouldnt it be safe to say if their showing IOI, they wouldnt display IOD and visa versa because it would be a contradiction of body language and micro expressions, which to my understanding through study and practice on the field they cannot control because most actions are unconscious movements....

It just seems to me that if you watch out for IOD's is just effective as IOI's because if one behaviour/s isnt being displayed then it must be the other one.... for me it is easier to use the IOD more than the IOI and im getting the same results to someone doing it the other way round OR maybe its the fact i use to get rejected so much that i have picked up on these IOD's and i have learned to harness them in my favour which puts more ideas up their for people to try and to improve their knowledge of bodylanguage as a whole - a whole new perspective

For newbies this strategy will be crippling, largely via the Confirmation Bias.

But it is a terrible perspective to give people new to body language. You seem to not realize you make people pay attention to a certain perspective, them not being interested. It is a terrible thought to influence people to look for something, because if you look for disinterest you inevitably find it, you look for disinterest and you find it. The same thing happens when you look for attraction you inevitably find it, so why not look for people interested in you and how to identify those who are interested in you.

In reality you should know the message they are sending whether it be happy, sad, angry, afraid, attracted, aroused, need to go, want to stay, etc. You need to interpret the message not look for one thing and think you are right. Just because a women is preening her hair doesn't mean she is attracted, she may merely be self conscious or lying( girls are known to preen when lying). You add everything up and get a clear message. You don't say oh she moved away, she leaned back, and she turned her body away and say oh she isn't interested. Gain the personality and strength to move her back towards interested not just move on.

The problem with your style is that you assume disinterest over all, not just at this moment, I have the confidence that I can build an attraction even after some disinterest. Look to read the message and then work from there, whether you need to build more attraction, elevate, or if it is a lost cause. You assume a negative message and it is a terrible thought to do so.

Again I state what about if you just say something and it makes her uncomfortable, it may not have anything to do with you. If you mention something it may evoke a negative emotion. You seem to be missing that. A girl might not like mention of dogs because she was attacked(afraid) or her dog just passed on(sad). Either way she may move away or put her hands up to self comfort her. However you missed the mark, you thought she didn't like you because of her move away rather than from you mentioning how much you love your dog.

You should interpret the message, then understand how you can use it, then elevate accordingly. Not say oh she moved away, she shied away, or she put her arms ahead her she isn't interested. What if she is just shy and does that with all human interaction? Body language requires so much wiggle room you can not say someone isn't interested based off 3 "stress" reactions.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

They can show both because as you even said girls are ruled by emotions. You could have a girl showing IOI's then you do something that is a turn off to her and bam get hit with an IOD. Or it can go the other way around. I think you are trying to simplify things to much as girls can show both back to back within minutes of each other. Its never a constant thing really. Just because a girl shows interest doesn't mean it will stay at that level of interest. It can go up and down at will.
The reason I am not for this is when a girl doesn't show an IOD it does mean she is into you either. There is a "neutral" ground if you will. Another name for it is the friend zone if you will. And so when she doesn't show an IOD doesn't mean automatically she is interested either. Also there are different levels of interest as well as well as disinterest. So to just assume when a girl doesn't show and IOD means she is into you doesn't tell you how much. She can be into some or a whole lot but you won't or can't tell when you just look for IOD's.

Oh and I forgot to mention something about emotions. Women aren't controlled by their emotions, PEOPLE ARE! That is such a ridiculous comment some women control their emotions very well and some men have zero control. The difference is merely how our brains operate. It has nothing to do with how we control our emotions, a woman beating up a cheating mans car with a bat has just as little control as the man who beats up the cheating girlfriends car.

If you look at the way we react to something versus how women do we merely react with our strengths a man, reacts by showing brute strength throwing things. A woman talks like crazy and rants and raves, communication is her outlet. People are different and while there is a reason for stereotypes there is always a wide variety of exceptions.

People control their emotions differently or are in most peoples cases controlled by their emotions. It takes training, studying, and practice to gain full control over your emotions, something most of us never learn or understand how to control our emotions.

_________________
Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

EXACTLY! And, from her perspective she'll pick up on very very strong approval seeking reactions to her (mostly) innocuous individual body language habits.

I ignore all IODs except for if she reacts negatively to a touch and/or tries to create some extra space between us. Then I just back off by giving her some personal space. This is being respectful of her and gives her the option to close space again or not....whatever, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. The overwhelming majority of the time she'll move back in because I did pick up on a very important IOD which is just actually an Indicator Of Don't Know You My Unconscious Wants More Space For Now.

OTOH, if I were focused on IODs, that's exactly what a low-value nice guy does....he's looking for any indication that things aren't going well, and of course they don't go well because the confirmation bias keeps buildling up towards the negative.