I'm a gal seeking advice for a friend who finds herself caught in what seems to be the Game.

One of her superiors has been behaving oddly towards her and I have been trying to help her figure out what to do. After doing some googling about behavior, I've come to some preliminary conclusion that he's using PUA techniques. Although it seem counterintuitive to ask you guys how to get out of the game, I thought it might be interesting to get your input.

My friend: 30, PhD scientist, now post-doc, single, working in male-dominated field. Self-admitted average looking (I agree with her). Top-of-the-line brains. Feminine - i.e. wears make-up, dresses, long hair - but gets along better with guys than gals. Assertive at work but shy socially otherwise. Not a flirt. Not interested in a relationship currently. Men sometimes are intimidated by her intellect.

Potential PUA: well-known university professor, in late 40s, international expert in his niche, well-traveled, dresses very well compared to your average scientist, witty, funny, European but has lived in states for 2 decades, popular

He's not her direct supervisor but she has been working with him on a side project for the last year. They meet every few weeks. I've met him in the past and thus can describe what he is like. In the beginning, their interactions were formal but withing the last few months, his behavior has been less formal and from what she describes to me, sounds like negging, sexualizing their conversation, and escalating kino. He's a high-touch guy so he hugs everyone but what made her especially uncomfortable is he began stroking her hair and her face at the end of their meetings.

I've been through something similar in the past and was able to dodge it by avoiding the guy because I was not working as frequently as she with this professor. So I know how she feels. As professional women, we have reputations to uphold. You don't want to have the slightest appearance of sleeping your way to the top.

The trick here is how to get out of the game gracefully. She still wants to complete the project with this professor and maintain a good working relationship with him (academia is a small world) but doesn't want it to go beyond that. So she can't just say something like "Are you trying to seduce me?" or anything untoward. So any ideas on what she can do or say?

This concept intrigues me as well. Just because someone uses a few backhanded compliments (negs) and knows how to physically escalate things doesn't necessarily make him a PUA. Alas, we still have this issue of what to do.

Sounds like this person needs to shut this guy down before things get dicey at work. The "let's just be friends" speech is in order the next time he goes to kino escalate.

This good old, "You know xxxx I have been thinking of our time together. I really enjoy working with you, and think you're a fun guy BUT I don't want to ruin our friendship by persuing anything further."

That sort of thing is usually death by PUA standards. Most of the methods that a PUA would use after that is to physically escalate once more to see what he can entice. Which she can easily shut down again.

He may try to talk to her about it. So she needs to be firm when she tells him this and stick to her guns.

That and lastly she can rub it in by making little comments later on like, "I'm so glad we settled that thing, because you're a good friend." LOL. I know it sounds evil but repetition is the key to learning right. The more she hammers that point home the harder its going to be for him.

Hope this helps out. I'm interested in knowing how it turns out btw.

Jon

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

If you want a pua to stop, just ask him to stop. I understand that there are all kinds of interoffice politics involved, but if it bothers her, why doesn't she just say "stop that". If someone was touching my hair or face, and I didn't want them to, I would just pull away and say "what the hell?". I can't imagine that your lives would require that much different of a reaction.
If she is as assertive as you say she is, then why doesn't she just sit down and say "I don't appreciate all the sexual banter and touchy-feely stuff, could you please not do that. " He is still just a normal guy. Treat him the way you would treat any other guy.

Its odd to me that you would come to a pickup forum to find out how to turn down a "possible" pua who is hitting on somebody else. I would greatly like to hear your honest stance and point of view on pickup, and perhaps some of us could demystify it for you. Because its seems like you might have a skewed prejudgment of pickup as some kind of sinister force (but I could just be reading you wrong).

(I don't use emoticons, but I would like to emphasize the fact that nothing I just said was meat to be taken as hostile or sarcastically, but rather as straightforward and curious)

+1

You have to remember these "techniques" in the PUA community are actually things that a lot of people do subconciously. Some people do them but don't know when to do them. It's like their internal clock to an interaction is 15 minutes fast. This is what makes guys come across as creepy. This guy is probably simply one of those guys.

Your friend might consider going "icy" on him and every time he kino's or does anything inappropriate she could simply and coldly say "Please don't". He might think she's "bitchy" but who care's. It wouldn't be enough for her to get fired or have complications at work. He'd just be cold to her back which might be the closest to professional as he can be.

Best of luck to you and your friend.

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Sincerely,



Jack Sunday

sexwithagirl.blogspot.com

I am familiar with the "let's be friends" and other approaches but was interested in what people had to say. My friend and I just weren't expecting to have to give it in the type of environment we work in and in our age group.

As for my general view on PUA techniques, to each his/her own. I find the methods sort of odd myself but I don't believe I'm in the target group anyway.

Sex is a universal part of life. No matter what the age group or environment, sex is always an underlying force in almost any social situation. Puas aren't just a bunch of horny college kids trying to get laid. A lot of guys turn to pickup after a lifetime of trying to understand women and failing. A lot of puas are older well educated and established men, whom have mastered nearly every other aspect of life, except an understanding of women.
They may seem odd from a female's perspective. But what you have to realize is that many of these techniques are not simply based on anecdotal observations, but rather are based on significant scientific research. A great deal of it is based on evolutionary psychology, modern psychology, and even some basic neurology. A lot of the techniques are aimed at woman's most primal sexual instincts, rather than their logic and emotions. These instincts are so deeply ingrained into your psyche, that you are not even cognitive of them. They are drives that you do not understand or relate to on any conscious level.

They may seem odd to you, but doesn't anything associated with sex and seduction, seem odd from an objective perspective?
Most women feel that way. They feel that they are somehow too smart or too savvy to ever fall for any kind of pickup techniques, and that they would be able to spot a pua easily. There is no target group. If you are a woman, somewhere there is a man who would enjoy sleeping with you, and if that man knows pickup you become part of a "target group" as you call it. Obviously from your situation, a woman you regard as a contemporary was in some guy's "target group", therefore it's not too hard to assume you are or could be in some other pua's "target group" as well.

'Pickup' is just flirting. For example, a neg = pulling Suzy's pigtails on the playground. Same thing.

Many guys who aren't PUAs do this stuff naturally anyway - 'Pickup' in the sense discussed here is just the result of other guys looking at this, picking up on what works and what doesn't, and then deliberatly dumping the stuff that doesn't work.


I say this to illustrate the point that has already been mentioned above - It doesn't matter if its someone trying to be a PUA, or if he's just someone trying (and apparently failing) to flirt. Your friend needs to deal with it the same way:- make it clear its not wanted.

Ok lets get this straight. You are a normal person who doesn't know anything about PUA? How long have you researched the subject?

I can tell you that some guys are probably offended that you assume he is a PUA because he is a creep! LOL.

I understand where you are coming from because I was a creep because of PUA too. It is not PUA that makes a man a creep though. It is the man himself. He doesn't respect women. That is probably why he is 40 and single-- just a guess.

Have either of you taken sexual harrasment training? They say to be direct and tell the offending person to stop. If it continues then report the behavior to a supervisor.

You can be respecful, but you have to 1.) understand where he is coming from 2.) be direct and sincere 3.) don't consider his feelings, but only consider your own.

I know number 3 might be hard for a women to do, but your friend needs to be direct and assertive.

If this man was like me, and he sounds like it. Then he will cry like a baby for 1 week or so, then move on and have more respect for your friend than any other women on the planet.

He just can't help it. He finds his sense of self from sleeping with women. It is too bad he doesn't understand women. Because he probably has a lot to offer. I assume he was never taught how to show respect to women or how to love them.

The world is a SAD place. I am so ashamed to have a pickup artist form as my only source of guidance. I wish I didn't have to do this on my own.

--Magnum45

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Walk Hard

This post is over a month old and the original poster is inactive since then as well. You guys can post if you want to. But I doubt if she will ever venture back to read your advice.

get her to drop names of famous pua's into conversation in very quick succession, whilst making a coherent sentence.

ask her to watch for his reaction, if he responds in anyway then he almost certainly is involved with pua. you can go from there.

at least if its done this way, and he doesnt respond, you will not embarrass anyone with adirect question