Natural Game DHV’s: Demonstrating Higher Value

I heard a great value story before about Al Pacino that also gives me also a sense of what is possible in pick-up. The Director is telling Al Pacino how he wants him to deliver the first two pages of the script to convey his character and the plot. Al Pacino says "We don’t need to do these first two pages. I can say all that in the first second just by the way I stand."

Attraction is mostly sub communicated through things like eye contact, body language and only a small amount of speech. Women do not respond to what you say, women respond to how you make them FEEL. This is sub communication on an ingrained level and is truly what generates all the attraction needed in a direct pick up. When you have these, No flamboyant routines, no playing hard to get and no social proof is necessary. Calibrate them into your own unique personality and you will be sending teenage girls into rapture.

Value isn’t a zero sum concept. Value is infinite; there is no reason to save or hide your value. It’s not an exhaustible resource, it won’t run out. I can generate value out of nothing in seconds because I understand what value is:

True Natural Game DHV’s:

• Great state regardless of the social feedback of other people.
• You don't supplicate and give your power away.
• Being able to fill or relax in awkward silences.
• Unreactive
• Vibe-sensitive. (Feeling subtle shifts in the interaction and never letting it get too negative, quiet or low-energy).
• Being the source of energy and good emotions.
• No active searching for indicators of interest (IOI’s) or fishing for compliments.
• Making people who are trying to 1-up feel like they are failing. Even cock blocks and alpha males are helping you and are on your side.
• Subtly screening girls you interact with.
• No qualifying, validation or approval seeking.
• Being present and in the moment.
• Not drawing emotion or state from the environment
• Feeling of self respect and high self worth.
• Perpetual and influential good feeling
• Assertive and unhesitant
• Well calibrated and socially savvy to all people not just the one you are talking to.
• Help people rise to their aspirations.
• Break rapport. shows non-neediness, standards and self contentment
• Talking about topics in detail without actually talking about any personal achievements within it.
• Body language well dialled and honed
• Not relying on alcohol. Visibly makes you sloppy and clouds your judgement.

The above examples are of how often natural guys without 'flashy looking game' will get laid. They are potent.

Michael – NYC

the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

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My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

Al Pacino said that? What a bad-ass!

Makes you want to learn to act. Knowing that you can morph to convey everything about any character would be sick through body language.

Good post. It really shows how massively important body language is. Inspiring stuff.

Peace

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Great post Michael! The actors i've met learn very quickly, and I think it's because of a few advantages:

-They are generally comfortable being the centre of attention.
-They are aware of and can manipulate their body and expressions as desired (there is no way they wouldn't be aware of a nervous tick or bad mannerism)
-They are better than psychologists at reading other people.

The list of elements that make a natural is great. My favourite natural DHV trait is this one:

-They put in less effort, they don't seem to be working hard to get results.

I think each one can be "learnt" or built. Each one can be broken down into a series of steps to get there. It might need some structure and technique for some (not necessarily lines or canned stuff), a way to disprove limiting beliefs and adopt the positive belief that underlies the quality, and others will come with success and positive feedback from women.

A great idea would be to break down the core elements that make up a natural (similar to this list) and then find the underlying belief. See which ones you have already and which you don't. Make a plan for possessing each one!

-G

I don´t think this has anything to do with natural game. Demonstrating higher value through. Showing them you have certain qualities will get you to a certain level of mastery, but it not something I think you should invest to much time in.

Theories like these that suggest that beeing a natural, building attraction, or becoming something new, is a result of a bundle of qualities has been outdated. It is mostly observers that come up with these qualities.

I don´t think this post belongs in this section. If you want to come up with a series of new attraction switches then do so in the routines, or mid game section. I don´t want people to misinterpret natural game as some sort of new MM.

Kowalski - Thanks for the vibes.

Richard Gambler - This sort of attempt to reconcile DHV with the underlying belief is valuable to get a detailed breakdown. Pretty nerdy stuff I know but a great suggestion none the less. Cheers mate.

Revolver - First of all fyi, I like the fact that you disagree with me because it keeps me humble. It will also kick start a debate so I appreciate that. I am not however going to withdraw my postition but I am willing to have a sensible conversation:

"I don´t think this has anything to do with natural game"
Disagree. Natural Game - is when the head is full of the experience of the current moment. In other words, there is no calculation, no strategising, and no expression of something that has been pre-rehearsed. Natural game with structure is NOT natural game. The minute you start putting a structure around it makes it lost regardless of how gurus market their products.

Therefore I have described TRUE Natural Game as I have done in my first post; the reality behind the appearance. It is to arrive without travelling.

"I don´t want people to misinterpret natural game as some sort of new MM"
The above DHV's are all hallmarks of a natural pickupartist. I think you may be bugged about the terminology I have used, namely DHV. That's fair enough - but this is the way that most people can understand it at the moment - To replace and exude the Natural DHV's listed above, over the canned game DHV's currently used. Chillingly simple.

"...it not something I think you should invest too much time in."
To the contrary I think the above are the MOST important things for talented and unexposed PUA's to work on.

"Theories like these that suggest that beeing a natural...or becoming something new is a result of a bundle of qualities. It is mostly observers that come up with these qualities."
The frame that this pre-supposes is that you are saying this is a bad thing and in fact you are contradicting yourself here. Why are you in self improvement in the first place if you don't want to develop various qualities? I think one of the greatest mistakes in life is that we see ourselves as a static painting. You even told me in your words it "will get you to a certain level of mastery" which suggests that you understand the growth of quality is very very real. Baffling. Quality is a characteristic of thought and statement that is recognised by a nonthinking process. This is very much still a part of natural game.

"I don´t think this post belongs in this section."
Now, If you can explain again here why the above examples are not natural game I am listening. If you don't understand why this is very much appropriate for this section of the forum, perhaps someone else can break it down for Revolver.

In the interim, I think it would be a great idea if everyone else reading this thread can post up on here some more Natural Game DHV's that they can think of and lets expand the list together. We could be on to somethng very cool here.

Best,
Michael - TheEdge

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My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

I am not suggesting that these qualities have nothing with game to do, I am suggesting that they have nothing with beeing a natural to do. I don´t like to use the title "natural" too much becouse it is a title very few deserve to have.

Firstly, when I am saying that listing qualities like these comes from observers I really mean it. The observer studies the concept of the natural and observe the people that they would call a natural. After that they make lists like these based on what they see the natural do and how they present themselves. When people see these lists they instantly try to develop them, and remove qualities that they already have. That is not improvement, it is adapting to what you believe others will think of as attractive. It is adapting to what others want.

Furthermore, one of the biggest things that I stand for is that you should be the main character of your life. Which is something that I think we can all agree on as a very important part of having a healthy life.

The underlying meaning of your post is that we should try to be a character in their life (not beeing the main character), which is just another way of seeking approval.


In my opinion there is actually two kinds of attraction:
1: conditioned attraction (which is negative)
2: actual attraction (which is positive)

If you read through your own post you will see which one you are preaching.


revolver

This is an easy response..

" it is adapting to what you believe others will think of as attractive. It is adapting to what others want....The underlying meaning of your post is that we should try to be a character in their life "
That is a naive move with little foresight. Don’t be foolish. There is no evidence there to convince anyone that it has to do with what other people want. People must act through your own intentions and live to their own expectations. I have stated my personal opinion on what I have observed in myself and I am encouraging others to look within themselves and do the same; to take the wheel and drive their own life.

In a previous post of mine I encouraged others to “create your own mindset based on first hand in-field references. You can start to break all sorts of rules and you’ll find you will get away with it.” People should create their own method and mind based on being congruent with who they are and indicative of their personality. A forum like this is designed to help people rise to those aspirations.

“If you read through your own post you will see which one you are preaching.”
I am not preaching. People are never dedicated to something they have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow... When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt!

"When people see these lists they instantly try to develop them, and remove qualities that they already have. That is not improvement"
Contradiction again. That is not improvement? YES YES you are right this is not improvement. This entire forum is one big joke revolver. It's here for people that actually want to get worse.

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The biggest fault of your post is that you still have the mindset that attraction is created when certain qualities are present.

That my friend is conditioned attraction

It is the attraction that is created based on what the girl is conditioned to be attracted to.

You have actually proven to me that you are an observer. What you don´t understand is that you can observe yourself, and in your last post you said you did.

When you are looking at the concept of sparking attraction you are still looking for triggers and switches.


Natural game is the only way you can spark actual attraction, and from what I have read from your posts you don´t seem to understand it.

Too many mistakes Revolver. Your arguments are not standing up in court...

"The biggest fault of your post is that you still have the mindset that attraction is created when certain qualities are present....you are still looking for triggers and switches... Natural game is the only way you can spark actual attraction”

It is all about certain Qualities! Let me break down Natural Game slowly and effortlessly.

I am a natural... which means:

1. I have a naturally flirtatious personality...
2. I follow my natural instinctual urges...
3. I have locked all underlying natural insinuations through firsthand experience...
4. I have supplanted deep inner natural presuppositions and behaviour... etc

BUT. . In systems of people, nothing ever stays the same, state of flux always occurs. And that is nature.
On a bad day one may start viewing the world less enthusiastically, perhaps because of a lack of sleep, or perhaps because someone close to them has passed away or some other external influence not under their control. Under these circumstances certain qualities or ‘value’ will be missing from the day and that is unattractive and un-seductive.

Unfortunately this happens to everyone. Every SINGLE human being. You can gradually eradicate these feelings but to some extent we all have Good days and we all have Bad days. It's damn near impossible to detach yourself from it. It's just an issue of how self-affecting you are and how much it consumes you. When certain things are missing the chances of attraction are slim. My list was an attempt to strip down ‘value’ to the mere basics. I.e. If one was to drop the facade and the masks / routines and pick up lines, What would they be left with if all situational based confidence and personality shells were to disappear.

By default you are saying that people remain the same all the time and they don't, not even naturals. Not even myself.

“You have actually proven to me that you are an observer. What you don´t understand is that you can observe yourself, and in your last post you said you did.”

To the contrary, I in fact agree with you that we are able to observe and watch our minds. This is the opposite of being present and in the moment (on my list). The moment you realise you have not been present, you can become present. But the instant your conscious attention sinks below a certain level or the outer world intrudes, thought rushes in. The words crawl in, the stillness is lost and you have a snap moment! You go back into your head. I am able to both be able to get out of my head to relax. And also be able use my brain to get things accomplished by using thought.

By becoming intensely conscious of the present moment and finding the off button, will find stillness and peacefulness. This is natural game in full force. It is true relationship.

_________________
My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

Thank you for confirming yourself as a person who believes qualities create attraction.

Attraction is not a choice. We are all attracted to everyone to some extent. It has nothing to do with apperence, qualities, traits etc. It is the law of the universe, we all want to be part of something.

Attraction is not something you need to spark through developing certain qualities, in other words creating a character that is not you. Attraction is sparked the second you see each other.


A natural is a person who knows this. Girls want him just as much as he wants them. Win - Win.

The skillset that a natural posseses is the ability to make her confident about beeing attracted to you. That is all. She is attracted to you just the way you are. Stop trying to become something you are not!

I'm curious, in the first post you basically suggested that everything that you do does not require thought. So, natural game would be acting or reacting without thought almost as if it were a reflex?

You know, as human beings, with enough experience we would probably all end up with natural game but the only people don't have it is because they haven't been socializing enough. What ends up happening is that they are thrown in field and they become a natural because the environment is no longer foreign.

Just to clarify to everyone, that just ahead of being a teacher, I am also still a student. I am far away from perfecting any of this. I have re-discovered how important it is to always have a learning frame. I would like to grow the list together with everyone else also on board.


Fair_Rose: Thank you dude!!


Rhum: To answer your questions:

“everything that you do does not require thought...natural game would be acting or reacting without thought almost as if it were a reflex?”
If by ‘everything’ you are referring purely to seduction then Yes. That is TRUE natural game.

(On another note, Some people think that by disqualifying themselves and/or making the girl qualify herself to him, they are still playing Natural Game. They aren't.)

“we would probably all end up with natural game but the only people don't have it is because they haven't been socializing enough.”
YES bud! We all already have what's necessary to get what we want - it's buried under piles of negative experiences, limiting beliefs and social programming.



Revolver: - This is amateur night.
You are listening but are you hearing?

"Attraction is not a choice. "
I agree that there is no conscious thought process that a girl makes to 'decide' whether or not she is attracted to a person. Meaning she doesn't weigh up the pro's and cons and then make a decision. It is an automatic response. Agreed.

Unfortunately you are a hypocrite because you yourself have differentiated 2 types of attraction. Namely conditioned and actual.. There is no such thing as REAL attraction and FAKE attraction. Women respond to what they find attractive, no one can tell me or them otherwise that their response was not for real. But YOU have given them the “choice”. A part of me has to laugh at this.

"It has nothing to do with apperence, qualities, traits etc.....Attraction is not something you need to spark through developing certain qualities"
What the hell? Are girls not attracted to me because of confidence, charisma or intelligence? Am i not attracted to them because of their warmth, kindness and personality? What planet are you from?

Tragic..

"The skillset that a natural posseses is the ability to make her confident about beeing attracted to you"
Thats the whole point of this thread..

E.g.
- Great state regardless of the social feedback of other people.
- Being able to fill or relax in awkward silences.
- Unreactive
- Vibe-sensitive

You are bizarre...

"Attraction is sparked the second you see each other." & "She is attracted to you just the way you are."

You have made one major flaw– and that is to presume that attraction is static! WRONG

Attraction is something which grows over time!

Why is it do you think that people fall in and out of love? Why do people get divorced? Why do people’s opinions on each other change? Why is it that Palestinians and Israelis can be enemies one minute and sign a peace agreement the next? Why do friendships get stronger? Which means that as people grow as individuals, people grow apart or go closer together.

This is a result of change. This is because people’s value can go up or it can go down. E.g. if they have a confidence crisis. etc..

What I have been saying all along is that the ‘Attraction’ between the 2 very same people, under very similar conditions and in a very similar scenario BUT in another time and in another place can be completely different. It can be positive or negative depending on how they feel a) with themselves and what attractive qualities they bring to the table in that moment and b) how they feel about the other person and what qualities they are attracted to at that certain point in their life.

There is a train of thought which goes like this:

Community Guy 1
This is the sort of guy who goes up to a female assistant in a clothes shop and says "I'm looking for jeans" and she looks at him like he is a freak because of his lack of confidence and she talks to him in a way that makes him want to leave the shop. There are certainly plenty guys in the community who are at this stage. However, over time, they can build themselves up to a point where they become:

Community Guy 2
You've been in the community for a while and are now well calibrated. You have very few limiting beliefs and are generally walking through the world with ease. You are used to getting good reactions and sparking interest in social situations. You go into a clothes shop and say "I'm looking for jeans" and the shop assistant's reaction towards you is very friendly (because of your great calibration, vibe and energy) and she is glad you walked through that door and into her day.

I don’t buy into the whole ‘make first impressions count’ or ‘you never get a second chance to make a first impression” train of thought. Length of time irrelevant in pickup.

However saying that, as I am a perfectionist (try to be) I do want to impress right from the start (you might as well start strong and as you mean to go on) but I also give thought to what FINAL impression I leave as well.

"It is the law of the universe, we all want to be part of something."
Enough with the strident rhetoric already. If it is not in our hands and in the universes hands instead then why are we all here learning this? Because we know it improves our chances for success if we take corrective action and make ourselves more attractive to the opposite sex. People are attracted to things. As best exemplified already - these are non physical entities such as state, vibe, dominance, leadership etc..

On a final note.
Revolver, You are digging yourself into a hole.
If you have a high evaluation of yourself then your ability to recognise new facts is weakened. When the facts show that you’ve just goofed, you’re not as likely to admit it. When false information makes you look good, you’re likely to believe it. You’re always being fooled, you’re always making mistakes.

And we are going way too far off topic. Now I have a suggestion: Decide to wrap it up.

For everyone else, I want to bring your attention back to the list. If people can make further suggestions then I would love to edit and insert the examples I like into the original post giving you credit for them.

Thanks,
Michael

_________________
My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

Patronizing me is not helping you. I am not going to stop arguing until you actually realize that I am giving you constructive advice.

Have you watched seductive reasoning?

If you have you will probaly realize that you are treating all women as whores.

"Attraction is not static" you said so yourself. That is actually contradicting everything you are saying in your first post. If you say that certain qualities make women attraction, then attraction would always be sparked in the same way? In that case you are suggesting that attraction is static, which is contradicting what you said in your last post. Stop all the confusion

Furthermore, confidence is not a quality or trait that you develop. If you find my post "natural confidence" you will see how I define confidence.

Finally, don´t mix up attraction with affection. If you are as cunning as you say you are you will realize that it is simply stupid.


By the way, I suggest that you take a class in rethorics so that you can learn how to write argumentative posts. Every single counter post you write is taking the content that I have written out of its context, you are quoteing me but the quotes won´t have a real meaning without the context.

With this post I leave this thread. Simply becouse I am losing faith in you.


revolver

Hee, guys.

A natural would be not giving much more of his time to this discussion.

He would go and talk to girls and that will make him and the girls happy.

Thanks for your insights. I really get it now.

You could agree that you disagree. That's it.

I advice you to accept this, and go out and make yourself and your girls happy.

Please keep posting your experiences. From those will come more inspiration. Than we all can learn more.

Cu,

SmoothDoc

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