i believe that i have a natural ability to pick up women, but the problem is that i need to work on it. i can spark interest and get attention from a girl. but the problem is sometimes i dont even realize i'm doing it. so i need to learn how to realize these things and hone my game basically, but i'm not sure if pua is the right way about going about this or if i should just try and do it myself

Don't look at the natural game as the great new trend that makes everything else obsolete. Look at it as the great way to improve your life, game and mindset. There is nothing wrong with using old openers and routines with natural game, it will even make your game better.

i think about it this way- if you think you DO have good natural game, go with it. Don't change yourself too much.
I had decent natural game prior to discovering the PUA community, but I used the PUA material to supplement how I was going about it, and to give me a little confidence knowing that people have used this material with absolute success.

So, I guess I'm trying to say strike a balance between the two that you are comfortable with and that gives you the most success.

I knew that I could open up sets with girls and make good, funny, interesting conversation with girls prior to learning PUA methods. After learning PUA methods, it helped me learn how to escalate that game and push the issue towards k-closes,etc.

So just experiment and supplement your game if you think you have good natural game already.

when your first starting out you must master ur natural game in order to master ur body language/confidence. them 2 coincide in a sense. im not a very good conversationalist. but after alot of practicing with eye contact, and other types of body language. i became more confident in all aspects and it allowed me to run my mouth, and be funny and alpha. I could watch 2 people having a conversation and i could end it by talking to one of the two, thats how powerful confidence is. You have the ability to end a conversation between 2 others and literally block the other one out! lol its so mean but u can!

when first starting out u shouldnt even be aiming for sex. u should be aiming to practice on as many girls as u possibly can. practice opening and building enough comfort to be friends. Making friends with other women will allow you to meet so much more other women. to game.

how old is everyone here??!! damn this shit is mad confusing... and no PU material doesnt affect ur natural game. PU material is essentially someone else's natural game written down for you to pick up on and try out for yourself.

Using PUA material can be like a cookbook.
Follow me into this metaphor

If PU can be seen as similar to cooking
The material of other PUAs can be like A cookbook,
For the newbie, the person who isn't a natural the cookbook will be like a definite guide,
Do A, then B, then C, then cake will appear.

For the Natural, or the more experienced, you look at the cookbook, and you take inspiration from it.
"Oh, he did like that with the venison? hmm, let's try something like that" and you go out, play around a little with the extra ingredients you may not have discovered for yourself, and voila, after a little trial and error you have a new dish, that you now can share with the rest of the people out there, and they may see a new detail they'd missed, and get inspired themselves.

Suddenly more fancy ways of preparing the dishes appear and you have tenfold more ways of getting laid if the original way doesn't seem to be able to cut it in this case.



You dig ?


Cheers!

well it depends... if we are trying to copy what a natural does... thereby doing something that appears natural but is actually quite unnatural for the given practitioner... then learning material etc is perfect... and it will become habit and appear more and more natural with time... however it will never be fully natural.

Now if your asking how to be a natural that is a complete 180 and learning all of these rational reproductions of what a natural does may infact hinder the transformation.

Short and simple: No, it doesn't. They both compliment each other.

Take PUA routines, and blend them with your natural game to fit your style. From there, use what works.

it depends how good you are as a natural i guess.

For some people being natural is being themselves and they can get women really easy by just being their natural self.. they are the guys that do qualify for natural talents.

i read this list on The Edge Natural Game Blog. of the true natural game DHV's (i love it!):

• Great state regardless of the social feedback of other people.
• You don't supplicate and give your power away.
• Being able to fill or relax in awkward silences.
• Unreactive
• Vibe-sensitive. (Feeling subtle shifts in the interaction and never letting it get too negative, quiet or low-energy).
• Being the source of energy and good emotions.
• No active searching for indicators of interest (IOI’s) or fishing for compliments.
• Making people who are trying to 1-up feel like they are failing. Even cock blocks and alpha males are helping you and are on your side.
• Subtly screening girls you interact with.
• No qualifying, validation or approval seeking.
• Being present and in the moment.
• Not drawing emotion or state from the environment
• Feeling of self respect and high self worth.
• Perpetual and influential good feeling
• Assertive and unhesitant
• Well calibrated and socially savvy to all people not just the one you are talking to.
• Help people rise to their aspirations.
• Break rapport. shows non-neediness, standards and self contentment
• Talking about topics in detail without actually talking about any personal achievements within it.
• Body language well dialled and honed
• Not relying on alcohol. Visibly makes you sloppy and clouds your judgement.

The above examples are of how often natural guys without 'flashy looking game' will get laid. they are potent. but for some guys being themselves is being manipulative. as david D. says: They like to give women gifts, act submissive, call them all the time, which is actually manipulative behaviour in that it's NOT being themselves.

I don't know if this answered any questions, but i thought it was worth while posting it..

_________________
The more symmetrical you are, the more orgasms you will give her.

to me being my "natural self" means to be back to the AFC point. once im doing the PU stuff, im not natural anymore. but for being natural in delivering your PU stuff, practice and experiment alot will eventually get you there.. it is more like integrating the PUA into your personality rather than faking it.. caz after all we all know its the Alpha male personality trait that makes a difference.

im still new to the community, however im not a total afc. all thru school i was regarded as an alpha male, my english teacher even made an example out of me for it, however to put it in an anology i was like a lion that couldnt roar. i could get girls interested and stuff but i lacked the confidence to escalate that interest to more productive things. since learning some pua stuff ive been more successful in that regard but i still use my old ways to actually meet girls and get them their attention. so yes it is possible to use both ur own natural style and pua material, its like the cooking analogy mentioned earlier.

great advice, i think i am going to study pua a little more. i'm at the point where i can open, talk, but then i have a hard time going from there, i guess escalating into that sexual state, and i need a guide for that so i will study some pua and ad its w/ my natural game

Hi,

I recomend my book. Google for kandid, seduction.
It teaches how to seduce without routines. It explains the general principles of seduction and gives many examples how they can be put into practice.

Give me feedback.

Kandid