Okay guys I'm new here but not new to the PUA material that's been on the internet the past few years. In high school I went from an AFC to something above that and it greatly increased my game but I had a huge relapse when I became super religious and anti sex/degrading women. Now I'm an atheist and I don't care about pre-marital sex and I'm trying to get back into the game.

Anyway I like the natural game ideology and I just ran into a problem. I'm gaming this girl who I made out with a few times in high school and started talking to again recently. We texted on the phone and I had some decent phone game and she was definitely down to hang out and possibly hook up.

Anyway I texted her today to set up a date for us to go on. I asked her if she had plans tomorrow night and she said no. I tell her that i'd take her on a date tomorrow night then and she said

"what makes you think I wanna go on a date with you"

I'm trying to use direct game so I thought I'd use the word date. I mean we're both adults. I'm almost 22 and she's 21 in a week or two. But I think the word "date" just fucked up my chances up. I just didn't want to use the word "hang out" because we're not just hanging out we're going on a date. She already admitted she was down to hang out alone so why this resistance?

Should I not have used the word "date"? I don't like the idea of pussy footing around by using the word "hang out" when my intentions are not to hang out but to go on a date. Two people hanging out for the purpose of spending time with each other to gauge romantic capability. But this totally just backfired on me HARD. All the vibes just went down the toilet the instant I used the word "date". It was my first time trying to use the word "date" and I was hoping it would work well especially for direct game but now I'm not sure what to think.

Don't worry too much about whether you say 'date' or not. Granted, the word 'date' is a bit old-fashioned but that isn't the real issue here.

You told her what was on your mind. You wanted to take her out on a date. So if she turns around and says, "what makes you think I wanna go on a date with you", you shouldn't have allowed that remark to have affected you at all. You could have said something back to her like, "why wouldn't you want to go on a date with a stud like me?" or you could have said, "you should count yourself lucky that I am offering to take you on a date!" I hope you get my point.

Don't let a remark like that from a women throw you off base. You know what you want and you should speak to a woman in a way that suggests you expect to get it.

I tried not to let it throw me off base. Here's how the convo ended up



her: what makes you think i would wanna date you?

me: who wouldnt wanna date me?

her: ya cuz you're just so amazing

me: pretty much! you can find out for yourself though. im asking you on a date not proposing

her: well i would hope you wouldnt propose over a text. its bad enough your asking me out through a text

me: your higher maintenance than i thought if texting isnt good enough to set up a time and place to meet

her: lol ur so clueless and I'm not high maintenance I thought it was obvious you don't ask a girl out over text

me: lol well i do. its really not that serious just 2 people goin out for a few hours. what do you expect when a guy asks you out?

her: for them to get on one knee and beg hahah jk idk they usually dont ask over texting tho personally is my preference

me: wow picky picky dont expect me singing outside your window anytime soon. do you want to go out tomorrow night or not?

her:please don't. what do u have in mind?

me: i was thinking we could get food somewhere and hang out. any type of food you absolutely hate?

her: no not really, ill let you know asap

me: okay i'll talk to you later

I really did my best to act like I wasn't phased so if she decides to go out with me so be it. If not it's her loss and I'm moving on.

I think you reacted reasonably well, you didn't seem to affected too much by her initial exasperation and she eventually agreed to go with you.
This was a good reaction...
... but this was not such a good addition. You get drawn in an argument over how she thinks you should have behaved and why you didn't do that, i.e. you are explaining yourself. Explaining yourself was not necessary, you did nothing wrong. You could have skipped the whole argument by leaving it at the previously quoted part.

That is the association women have with the word date: it must be a grand romantic gesture. Ridiculous of course, because the men (and women) who ask for dates in such a manner will not get it about 95% of the time. I personally indeed refrain from using the word date. It's not that you are hiding your intentions, it's just that the word date evokes associations and expectations that go far beyond what you actually want or are prepared to offer. Even so, the previous poster is right, using or not using the word date determines a lot less about the actual outcome of a conversation than how you react to shit tests.

_________________
One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

I think people in their 30s are comfortable with the word "date", but younger people don't really use that anymore. I went out with this 18 y/o several years ago and she laughed when I said the word date and made fun of me. Apparently "kicking it" or "chillin'" was the term being used back then.

Aside from the word being antiquated and unfashionable, I think it telegraphs too much interest and intent. It's also too official. That's why I'd rather say "let's get together" "let's hang out" "let's hook up" "let's meet" "let's go out" "let's get together" etc.

If you wanna' get more slang with it you can use things like "let's chop it" or "let's do the damn thang'", or find some other sayings kids are using nowadays.

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Yeah that was the first time I used the word "date". It was a bit of an experiment for to be honest and fuck no I'm never saying that again. I had everything going great with my texting game the past week and this took me several steps backwards. It definitely put all her shields and walls up the instant she heard the D word. I tried to stay in frame but I don't think she'll react as well to me now until I can actually get her in person. I hate phone game anyway I'd rather just hang out in person and really put the moves on. This phone game won't mean shit once we actually go out together.

But yeah I don't know why the fuck I thought I could use the word date and get away with it. I guess it is a bit formal and causes too many expectations so I kinda shot myself in the foot. I thought it was being more direct to just call it a date and maybe on certain girls it would elicit a good response but I doubt that. In my mind I was thinking a woman would like the idea of a man being confident and secure and calling it a date and invoke nice thoughts about being wooed but like most things women say they want, that's absolutely bullshit. If I had used any word besides date she would have been all over for me sure.

A lesson learned definitely. It definitely was an experiment for me I mean I knew beforehand what I was doing I really wanted to test this but now I'm kinda regretting testing it on a girl I really wanted and had already set up perfectly for the one on one interaction. I'll let you guys know how I salvage this I've got a couple ideas on how to reframe this already.

Yea, I honestly think the word has become outdated. So to her it was like listening to her dad talk about his old dates with her mom. Her last boyfriend probably called it "chillin" or some shit like that, then you come along talking about DATING her and now she is thinking your are wanting to marry her or something.

Remember, dating should be called "going out". I mean you already knew you screwed up, so yea, it's all about damage control at this point.

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Yeah I think I let all my new reading of direct/natural game material go to my head. I thought I was superman for a second lol I've learned something though. Using the word date was not natural it was unnatural. It's crazy how much power that 1 word has though. It honestly feels silly to me that we could do the same damn activity but just because I call it "going out" or "hanging out" it's way different than using "date". I think that's bullshit but whatever. It's all part of the game.

So many walls just went up so I hope she still wants to meet me. The good thing I did was stay in frame and remain consistent even when she put up resistance. I just need to game more chicks so this one potential failure is just a drop in the bucket. If I had other girls to talk to this wouldn't even be a concern. I'm going to make it a point to meet some new prospects this week.

I'll update this thread later tonight or tomorrow with the results of this whole thing.

Could use some help guys. She did exactly what I thought she was going to do. Texted with a fake excuse to flake out. I predicted this yesterday.

After the conversation last night I decided to not contact her again.

She just texted me

"Do you hate me? I totally forgot it was my friends 23rd"

Bullshit excuse but I expected this. I'm just not sure whether to ignore this and forget about her or try to salvage this.
If I try to salvage it it will DLV as it it will be like I'm kinda needy and care too much about seeing her.
If I respond and try to discipline her and let her know I didn't appreciate that I'll seem pouty and that will be the end of it.
If I respond and act like it's all good it's sort of letting her walk all over me.

I could not respond at all but that may seem a bit pouty too. Thing is she's the one who disrespected me by not getting back to me about the date. She was probably thinking about it all day an excuse to get out of it and waits til 8:30 to contact to me. I honestly forgot about this shit at like noon because I knew it was going nowhere. I was already ready to write her off like 8 hours ago so now I don't even know if I should bother with her.

I really want to hang out with her but at the same time I can't lower my dignity and my own value just for a girl. I'm ready to walk away but if I could still make this work I'd love to.

Any advice?

Just soft next her. If you feel the need to respond to her text, you can make up some excuse as to why it was better off for you that she couldn't make it, since you wouldn't have been able to make it either. Like, "I'm not mad, I had to stay late at work that night anyway." or "No I'm not mad, I've been sick as a dog the last couple days anyway."

See, when a girl does that shit to you, it DLV's you eventhough you aren't even doing anything. She's basically saying "Sorry I rejected you, but (this) was more important than you." And so when you respond, you are basically blocking her attempt to DLV you and saying "You're attempt to reject me didn't matter because I wasn't going to go out with you in the first place."

_________________
“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Don't say "date."
And a general guideline for why I think you should not say date...
I go off the idea of the golden rule when interacting with others [not whoever has the gold makes the rule, as effective and true as that tends to be]. For example when some girl, I'm kinda into and find attractive yet don't know if I want to date yet, asks me out on a date I kinda wanna back off and away from her. It's just a bit too much pressure and her expectations might be a bit higher than I care for.

There's a girl who started making out with me at the bar. She's pretty hot. I'm a pretty emotional person who wants to be in contact with someone I'm making out with or fucking rather than the emotionless sort've person who wants to split and never talk again [though some girls I don't ever wanna see again, usually cause they're bitches or really creepy and just rub me the wrong way sorta thing. I try to avoid them from the start].

So this girl wants me to add her on facebook and we're talking and she asks me to hang out with her. Which is fine by me. I wasn't so sure I wanted to date her or even sleep with her. Kinda wanted to see what she's all about and make sure she isn't creepy, crazy, clingy, or other negative descriptions that start with the letter c.


A loooooooooooong time ago I was working at Cedar point and kicking a soccer ball around with some chick outside the dorms. We were talking and just passing the ball back and forth and she wanted to hang out with me. She was cute and interesting to talk to. I run into her a lot at the dorms and talk and maybe a week had passed by and me and her are on a bus to the mall and she's telling me she started to like me that day we'd played soccer [and I thought we were just friends... kinda just didn't care if she liked me or not really].

Then she asked me out on a date [which was cool and all]. But while we're on this date she's pressing all this boyfriend girlfriend dating shit on me and came off as really fucking clingy. So I told her I thought she was cute and felt it would be unfair, for her, if we dated since I just wanted to have sex and didn't feel a connection going on other than a friendish vibe. She said thank you for the honesty and we ended up fucking that night... but unfornutately I ignored my intuition when it said she was clingy and an emotional wreck. She pretty much followed me everywhere and was really dependent on my existence [which sucked ass]. She also never had an opinion about anything and just agreed with everything I said. Not fun.


So, when I'm talking to a girl I just think of things like that. If I, as a person, don't like clingy obsessive nonsense or people putting pressure on hanging out to be something more than just hanging out than I'm sure she doesn't either.


It's perfectly fine to let a girl know you like her or your interested and then ask if she wants to hang out sometime. Just don't call it a date. Make it no pressure

_________________
I feel like the point of a community is to help where/when/however u can.
-Aceospades12

I never use the word date, I just ask them if they want to get together usually something like "Let's go out friday night" and they usually ask "what do you have in mind" and you take the lead from there.

The word date or dating gives the wrong impression, it brings up thoughts of going to dinner, cinema all the things you shouldn't do when first meeting girls.

_________________
A Dominant Force In Self-Development For Men!

http://www.dominantalpha.com/

In my experience words themselves hold little value compared with intent and sub-communication so I would say that it really doesn't matter whether or not you use the word "date" or "get together" or whatever nomenclature you would attach when asking to meet.

I do not necessarily agree with some who say the word "date" has negative connotations. You can say anything as long as you attach positive feeling to that word, when I number-close in the street I always suggest that I take the girl on a date but I could just as easily use any other word. The important thing is to attach feeling, romantic suggestion and a story to that word such as in the following: "I have to go now, but before I go, give me your number so I can take you on a date. It will be fantastic, we will have so much fun together..." etc. I also use the word "date" in order to make my intentions clear and unambiguous.

The only exception to this is when I text asking for dates. When texting it's probably best to omit the word because as Powerful Alpha rightly noted, for some it may have negative connotations when no positivity is attached to it.

Pretty useful post - I've had this happen to me quite a few times.

Genie of the West, how did you respond to the flaking text eventually? What happened next?

_________________
"Now, right now, I'm a f***in' race car, right, and you got me the red. And I'm just sayin', I'm just sayin' that it's f***in' dangerous to have a race car in the f***in' red. That's all."

I don't think "lessons learned" are so easy, we might run into mistakes if we jump the gun so easily and feel so sure.
You never know what would have been if you had acted otherwise. Sure, you get an idea, but that's what it is, an idea, not a certainty.
You can't be sure she wouldn't have reacted even worst if you had said "hang out" (unlikely, but she might have even said "oh what now, you don't even the balls to call it as it is?"

Anyway, thanks for the shared experience!