i would say for if someone starts learning PUA, most likely he isnt exactly a born natural, if not he wouldnt seek advice and help.

i would rely on routines at first, then as my game gets better I start using natural technique.

double post.

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AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
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i''ve read alot of articles so this one is not new to me, but still some nice opnions in here.
Don't entirely drop routines , just use them as spice or use them until you get back into state again. when im in trouble i have my routines ready - i have routines ready for cockblockers and so forth becuase when im using my routines which i internalized i don't have to think about what to say - i just flick a switch and the routine comes out. i try to do everything without routine because it's more rewarding , however routines are just a tool - a extra tool when you need it.
my mindset is that im not PUA or AFC but im made to satisfy woman ,
im almost 100% natural now.. the openers i came up with on the spot are:

do you got a light and a fuck ?
you want to fuck .. no ? are you hermafrodite or something ?
you look like you speak english
what are you standing here ? there are chairs everywhere - don't be shy !
you can't find your stuff ... do you need a flashlight ? i can call the cops if you want
are you the bouncer ? ( THIS ONE IS KILLER .. used it last night on a hot girl )
You look hot... do you want a glass of ice ?
My contact lens is not properly set in my eye, i need a mirror... no mirror in that toilet ? well your forehead also reflects.

just came up with them on the spot - no fucking 3 second rule and other shit. i approach when i want to and when im in state i approach instantly anyway. when you are not thinking are your not in your head and enjoying the evening you come up with all these weird openers on the spot... sometimes im like wtf lol how did i came up with that ?

i was a huge fan of opinion openers and i used them alot because you force your target to invest early on and you get some info about that person. however after a while i decided i don't need opinions or help about certain things at all , i don't need to ask questions - fuck them - i don't give a shit anyway no matter how they reply. sometimes im seeing guys approaching girls saying '' hey i got a question what do you think of my hair '' and im like wtf are you talking about dude ? why teh fuck should i open people or ask opinions about your hair or some artist ?

look i used pcikup line backward pickup line drunk pickup line jumping pickup line etc after a while i started to get into natural game and started to read books and tunrned this whole inner game stuff inside out. you know why i switched to natural ? becuase routines didn't make me happy, it made me feel like i was living the same evening over and over , the biggest problem was that i was inside my head and it moved me further away from who i really am - i just didn't had that vibe.

second reason is that most relationships/dates ended rather soon becuase when i was picking up these girls first few weeks they thought i was fucking alpha omega sexy good looking cool dude who is different, it's not .... i just used these PUA routines as a shield, i was acting like i was another person or something , after a while they thought i was incongruent and chode. when i was depressed i gone a night out - pulled some chick and K-closed her or F-closed her - but im still depressed. you got my point ?

being natural is has nothing to do with pickup, it's being aware about everything including your own life and problems, PUA is a tactic , natural is a principle. i was acting years and years out of social conditioning and really thought what people thought of me. now im really connected to my inner core essence becuase i know who i am , i don't give a shit if you tell me i suck because i know who i am. and because i know who i am i can be my best self in life , not only in pickup but also in my career.

this whole PUA thingy was just a road to find a deeper meaning , about how fucked i am. at start (years ago) i started to read it applied it however it does not make you better with woman. if you'ré chode with tactics your just a chode with tactics - becoming natural is elminating that chodeness and confronting yourself within - that was what the whole journey was about.

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AK-47...When you absolutely positively have to kill every fucking orc in the room
questions about herbal medicine here-vp582526.html#582526

Interesting responses.

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My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

You get into the pickup and structured game allows you to have something to say so you can start learning to work on your nonverbals, learn to interact with women, practice what works and doesn't etc. It's like training wheels. As you gain experience through hundreds of approaches you start to develop an approach that meshes with your personality, which by the way will change the more approaches you do. There's no way someone who spent their waking hours locked in their room playing World of Warcraft can expect to get into this and use Natural Game, but they can develop Natural Game by using structured game and meshing it with the finer points of their personality and the things they learn about human interaction after hundreds of approaches. The post is excellent on what the goal should be, but I personally have found you need canned material to get an education on the finer points. In the beginning it's much better to run through a memorized DHV spiked story and watch the woman's nonverbal signals than to have to pull a story out your ass and focus on telling it right and miss all the nonverbal communication she is expressing.

Great post but this one part kind of bugs me. There simply is no "value".
Assigning a value to a person is part of judging others and i dont condemn it but when I'm interested in a girl (not drunk and looking to get laid, actually "interested") I dont want to pretend we're two numbers. I dont see how that would help any of my intentions to become reality. Convincing yourself that you're in some way better than her is not exactly different from letting the outside world, media or friends convince you that she's out of your "league" or has "the higher value".
I think we should free ourselves from that idea in order to see people for what they really are.

Fair Points

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My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

I'm going through what you went, right now lol... I must say though, reading canned material and methods was a good learning experience... if anything, I can bring some of the methods I don't use currently into my natural game... won't force it tho

+1, agree 100%. Between reading ebooks, articles, forum posts, etc etc I started realizing that openers, canned lines, routines, etc etc aren't for me. It's all fake. You spend so much time learning a1-a3, dhv, nlp and all the other BS that you're consciously thinking "ok what next in this plan?" Once you do that, it's over. And what happens when you get a girl who you think is ltr and you've been playing a pua? Now you have to reinvent yourself and she probably won't be into that because you lied, yet the PUA community says lying to get a chick is cool and OK.

Once I have attraction, I'm golden. Cocky/funny, confidence, not giving a sh*t about if I lose the girl or not, etc etc. Just gotta work on getting that hook point...

This is what we need more of... excellent points

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Knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.

Problem with newbies is we don't think about the fact that this girl is one of a 155 million, we think of it as one girl. That is the problem with most of us. Answer for all you who are asking about the silent moment, laugh at it and say always love an awkward silent moment. If you don't feel the conversation has any future to it, say it was a pleasure to make your acquaintance and move on.

To me a lot of the natural game is based on the character you have. I am not a natural in perspective of getting girls in bed. I am a natural in the perspective that at least half the women I interact with show some form of attraction to me. Just grew up not realizing it. Once I started understanding body language I realized it wasn't that hardly any girls were showing interest in me it was that the majority were. I simply hadn't seen the symptoms through body language all this time. Weird to think but women's behavior was so consistent with me that I didn't think any liked me. Body language should be the first thing you study for you to be a natural. It also makes a interesting conversation piece if you can tell them how they feel based on their body language.

Guide to being a natural is: Start building your inner game first. Learn NLP tactics, make approaches. Learn to get over fear of approach by failing several times even until your numb to it(I know a guy that walked up to 10 sets of girls in one night and asked them to outright deny him and/or slap him.). Write down everything you like and love about yourself and read it daily. Keep a list of compliments(and add to them, I am up to 8 pages) you've received and read them daily. Off note learn to dance ASAP.

1. Learn body language. This is your first priority, read lots of books and study it every where you go. It will take a while to make it absolutely natural to know when a girl is interested. Learn when you should exit. However if you are watching others you can also learn from them. Any shopping complex or grocery store(most of us go to grocery stores) is a good place to study body language. Learn to stand more dominant and confident.

2. Study books on courtship. You should start watching it every where nice to learn from someone else's mistakes.

3. Learn to be funnier. You can watch stand ups and if you are reminded of a part recite it. There are plenty of books on the subject. Movie comedies can give you some great quotes, you can even talk about the movie.

4. Study books on charisma, NLP, and personality. You need to learn to be a more powerful and influential person. Make everyone(men and women alike) feel good and they will associate those feelings with you. A charismatic person makes everyone feel good. This will make you confident as well. Be confident complimenting people, do not compliment body parts only compliment accessories/clothes. Always be respectful.

5. Study book on mingling/having conversations. Learn to extend a conversation. Read books on communicating. Learning to listen is the most important part of a conversation with a women. Listen carefully to how she says things and listen for a passion or hobby. You need to stand out with your character and diction. Learning the proper tones. Saying I hate you seriously is a lot different than if your saying something like you I hate you jokingly. Tone can be a huge part of communication and brings an entire different aspect to what you say. Eye contact is key, devote your full attention to them. Be well cultured in music a great conversation piece, everyone listens to music. You can talk forever about music.

6. Have balls. You just need to elevate, not know when to elevate but just elevate. You need to just do, not think. This is the part most of us struggle with. We AFCs have a hard time just elevating. Most of us are fine on every other department. Good personalities, funny lines, it is our shyness and fear that gets us.

That is what I see for a person to become a natural. Natural is definitely the long cut, but you will be a better person in life. You will be a better communicator. A leader. A confident person. Teach you to be you. You will find the girls who truly like you for you, if you are looking long term that is. Everyone will like you. You will be far more influential. You will have an easier time persuading people. You will never run out of tricks talking to anyone.

I'm not a PUA, infact I only discovered PUA and this forum a few weeks ago.

I spent a long time telling myself that I wasn't a naturally attractive person and after a lot of reading in these forums I now realise how wrong I was.

Everyone has the ability to be flirtatious, being flirty is simply letting somone know that you are attracted to them, some people make it obvious, other people make it more subliminal. If you feel that you can't flirt, it isn't because you were born to fail at attracting women it is purely because of your lack of confidence.

Very few people are born with untouchable confidence, it is somthing that you achieve over time by getting to know yourself. Learn your strengths and weaknesses and achieve your goals and be proud of yourself.

I found that what stopped me from being confident and flirty was past experiences in other relationships, although this may not be the case for you as it differs from person to person. As a result I had a bad case of AA from fear of rejection and a lack of confidence.

One of the most helpful and inspirational things I heard was to just learn to like yourself. Remember YOU are fucking awesome, your the centre of your universe and you control exacly what goes on in your life. If somone doesn't want you in your life weather it be a friend, an old flame or even somone you've approached on the street you need to understand its there loss on a great person in there life, and I'm not just saying this to make you feel better, this is FACT.

I realise this is a catch 22, but this is the key to confidence. Everyone can be flirtatious and confident if they just learn to love themselve's which is somthing that everyone can do.

From reading the above I am really glad that Natural Game is catching on!! We need this!!

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My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

Just logged in after a couple of years and good to see I'm still getting reputation points for stuff like this Wish everyone huge success in natural gaming!

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My Natural Game Blog: http://the-edge-michael.blogspot.com/

Motivational!