Fighting is a very contextual thing.

Most of the time in western societies it shows a lack of control. But it can also show courage/strength/skill/cunning/whatever. Various people value it differently depending on their world views and cultural background.

It usually either excites us or horrifies us. Usually a mix of both.

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However this idea that fighting or becoming aggressive is some beta male trait, is such utter Bullshit.

"I'm in control, I do not compete"

It just ignores the fundamental principles of this world.

Does the Alpha male lion killing the cubs of his rival mean he is no longer alpha when compared to his rival?

Is Business A's CEO, use of predatory pricing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing ) to put the squeeze on hiss competition making him beta when compared to Business B which has gone bankrupt thanks to his marketing strategy?

What about in roman times? What about Senetar C who has -up and coming- senator D stabbed to death, is senator D now the alpha?
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Dominance is a vital trait in leadership, you can pick whether it is influence, physical strength, intellegence or money that gives you it. However when it comes to the crunch, if you do not maintain your dominance, you're going down.

"All men are but straw dogs" - Tao te Ching.

Yeah, well in the animal kingdom... And sure we are nothing but animals. But in the controlled clubscene where the security throws you out if you fight... It is better to not fight.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

If getting your teeth knocked loose and having your nose broken is better than sex, why are you here? You can round up some like minded guys and form a fight club easy. They'd all likely be AFC's, though. Sorry, but nothing trumps a vagina that feels like it was custom made for you. Yours is out there somewhere.
None of your examples are of actual human men physically fighting. Your analogies aren't relevant to REAL WORLD FIGHTING. Pretty much the only way you get to look like a hero is if someone calls you out, you coolly brush it off, he keeps coming at you and attacks you, and you beat his ass in self-defense. Like when you sexually kino, I think women are totally turned off if you look like you're into it. Maybe that's the key; if picking fights does work.

you dont have to fight, but a lion will always protect his pride

i train five times a week with guys that do fight for fun. Albeit in a safe, controlled environment.

it is fun and the adrenaline rush is unbelievable.

i dont expect you to understand, i know that you have never been put, or put yourself, in that situation. but having your nose broke does not hurt in the slightest.

when we train we wear gumshields, so broken teeth are not a problem either.

also, they arent pua's but many of them are not 'AFCs' they are high value guys.

i would never take advice from a virgin about sex, you shouldnt comment on the adrenaline rush from unarmed combat.[/b]

Fighting is funny, depending on the context of the situation you can seem like a hero or a retard. They both are capable of attracting woman, so whatever method cn work if you have the frame for it.

Dude,
Not Cool man. i dont respect guys who try/attempt to out alpha a person.

I missd the days when "Bros" had a common goal and because of that goal they had a Code, A Code of Honor!

So dont pick fight, its very, very, very....(wow i cant stress this enough) its very unattractive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont try to AMOG.... Dont for self defense purposes ONLY.

(LOL thinking about it, its sorta like Guns. We create more guns to protect our lives and yet the guns we create are the same objects threatening the vary lifes we are protecting!!!)

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DISCLAIMER: All things said/suggested by "civilian" are strictly for entertainment and general information purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. I accept no Liability for such comments or suggestions whatsoever.

Ezo + Minsok.

You have both missed the point. I'll reiterate quite simply.

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Leadership and alpha status are dynamics within the group. If you do not hold onto your end of the leadership bargain it will dissapear.

No one has "won" alpha status, they can only be "winning" it. If in two weeks time that groups stops paying attention to you, there is no certificate you can wave to say "Hey guys, remember I'm your alpha, I WON REMEMBER!"

If a guy comes into your set, and is winning the crowd under his wing, sitting there and refusing to aknowledge what is going on with "I do not compete, I am alpha, I have already won." doesn't work.

The struggle for dominance is never truly over. As such acting to protect your dominance, is NOT a beta trait.

It is the trait of a strong, pro-active and driven leader. i.e. a truly powerful alpha.

EDIT: Speaking as someone who used to get into quite a few brawls and an MAist to this day.

On the one hand: Fighting is an incredible rush, it takes time to get accomadated to it, but once you get over the fear it's a truly incredible high. Fuck you should know this, look around yourself at the media. Violence horrifies us becuase it is degrading, humiliating, terrifying, disgusting, confusing and barbaric.... but it's a part of us that we have a fetish like relationship with. I shouldn't even have to tell you to look at your tv for proof.

On the other; it is and can be (see bold in above paragraph), and it most definatly can kill you!

Personally I have strong rule of thumb to avoid violence, practically speaking it's just not worth it, and it's unfair on those around you. Including any agrressors as they are usually the ones who want to fight the least.

LMAO!
While you guys are arguing and tryna AMOG each other....
i currently taking all your girls! THX

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DISCLAIMER: All things said/suggested by "civilian" are strictly for entertainment and general information purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. I accept no Liability for such comments or suggestions whatsoever.

No one is discussing the idea of staring down the other guy and forgetting about the group.

What we are discussing is recognising that no man is indesctructable, and that it is important to nip actual threats in the bud.

Man, we are not trying to AMOG anyone here, we are having a pretty interesting discussion.

Fin: Yeah, I see what you mean. Aboslutely, you arent ever safe. Maybe I am exaggerating my examples to make a point. Yes, even the most alpha of the alpha will find other people who stand higher than them. Like if I meet Brad Pitt in field, of course Im not gonna be the alphamale.

What I am saying is just, try to limit the fight for power until you really need it. It is like love, hold it to hard and its gonna die, too loose and you are gonna lose it. Like fight too hard and people think that you have something to prove and thus you are a beta. Better to fight only when appropriate, when someone is really threatening you. I personally dont let anything bother me. I mean, some guy is showing off and shit. I just look at my girls, give them the look and they all join in having fun at his expense. I rarely need to fight for power. But yeah, if I ever do, I do not resort to violence, why would I most things in life can be solved with your words. They hurt more too.

Plus! I love this one!

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Knowing you can defend yourself is definitely a confidence booster. Conversely, knowing you cannot defend yourself will probably make you appear more uneasy in a lot of situations. This uneasiness will make your "game" weaker because you will be giving off a nervous energy. My advice take a martial arts class.
There is a difference between looking for a fight and being able to handle yourself in a fight. A true pickup artist can use his social skills to avoid confrontation and said PUA should never pick fights. It attracts the wrong kind of attention. However, there is nothing wrong with being able to hold your own against aggressors.

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Start your new life @ www.lifesagame.org

Yes, I agree with that. I love the martial arts and have trained several. So yeah, defense is defense. But you should also remember that it is about defense, not picking fights.

Plus, the Japanese martial arts comes with some eastern philosophy as well and people could benefit from that. Helps your inner game too. Ok, also chinese.

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I'm not trying to be a dick Ezo, but you're being a Pick Up Snob in my opinion.

bbardot: you just reminded me about porn

Please, I'm no cherry. You're not even talking about "fighting". You're talking about about "training... in a safe, controlled environment." There's a huge difference, you get gum guards for one. What you do is socially acceptable and that's why I said it's possible to get your aggro fix and impress women at the same time. Sure, sparring is exciting and gives you a lot of adrenaline, but sex probably gave you the same levels of adrenaline when you started out; you just got used to it. Besides, sex is continuously pleasurable where sparring is continuous exertion and anxiety.

As for missing the point of this thread, Ezo is totally correct, if you consider yourself an alpha, you don't have to beat every alpha in the field. No matter how good you are, there will be someone better and being able to acknowledge another guy's skill and success are key to being a well rounded man. Constantly worrying about whether you are the most alpha guy in the room sounds really insecure. Also, worrying that all the guys see you as the alpha sounds like you're focusing on the wrong sex. Maybe I'm too new to this, but I'm not convinced that ALL women always want the most alpha guy in the room. They seem to just like the one that's comfortable in his own skin and self assured.

Maybe in the Himalayas two silverbacks will pound eachother's brains out and chest beat, but here in civilization, it's totally fine to tip your hat and say "Well played" when you meet someone of your caliber. To me, that displays more confidence and you're validating the guy, which give you power. Much better than picking a fight in the off chance you'll impress some socially messed up girl that will egg you guys on and take off with the winner (when does that happen?). I think there can be more than one alpha. And you know, if there can't, he can't take the entire pack of women with him when he leaves anyway. But maybe I'm just making excuses not to fight because my mother gave me perfect teeth and I want to keep it that way. Missing teeth is a game breaker, don't give a shit what anyone else says. I put myself and my welfare above anybody else. I'm not going to endanger myself just to get some other person's attention.

Awesome! This is alpha male behaviour!

+1 rep

You're still taking the idea of "fighting" too literally.

(Though I am clearly off topic here; it's an important point to raise)

No one should ever have to "beat" everyone else, nor should they try to, as with many mentalities in the PU world, they are often reactionary to one another. When PU first started we had a lot of guys who were getting aggressive with other males, or worrying everytime someone entered set.

Fact is if you are good, you should never really need to worry about what other guys are doing becuase it's probably massively so chodish when compared to you. On top of that if a guy actually gets the girl and is better than you (and that will probably happen at some point), it's no biggy plenty more fish in the sea.

However, this is reactionary to the idea that you must deal with everything and as such is a bit of over-kill.

Ignoring someone and refusing to accept them works on the basis that the one who is of the most utility to the group is the one who is picked as a partner.

This isn't representative of real life. The one who wins is actually the one who is percieved to have the most utility and the one who is most active in getting what he wants.

Otherwise: Your point about being the "alpha male" not being a neccesity, is in fact very true, and I wish that more people would realsie it.