Blind has it mostly right, despite waxing prolix, which is something coming from me as i'm normally long-winded.

Naturals do use routines, they just dont call them that as they manifest themselves in internal memes that are repeated over and over. So as they arnt practiced at home and pre-constructed they are just as contrived in their pickup, but rather its by de fault then de jure.

Look at any "Natural" on YouTube picking up woman. Hes recycling the same lines, body language, sequence, and routine with slight variation. All the best guys tend to re-use what works. Pretending otherwise is overly self-congratulatory.

How many different naturals have you met? I'm not talking about some guy that is on youtube I'm talking about guys in the field that seem to pull tail from every angle. Guys that don't give a fuck they go meet a woman at work, go to the club with her(she leaves because she has work early), leave with a different woman, then go to an after party with a different woman, then text a woman who he met at the club and she comes over to fuck his brains out. That is a true story of one of the naturals I know. He doesn't use gambits, he doesn't use lines, he is an attractive guy and knows it.

You have likely never watched a true natural in the field operate, it's an interesting thing to see. It's all about just having fun and then they escalate when they want to, literally that is all a natural does. I have seen him do it countless times, it's funny because he literally couldn't tell you what he does. In fact he always complimented my abilities with women, which I thought was bass ackwards. I know more about how he does it than he does lol.

Escalation is routine that is obvious but words and behaviors they are who they are not someone else.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

Obviously everyone here both knows and has seen a "true natural" operate, and it will be clear to the most casual of observers that one approach, and the pursuit conversation, will look and sound remarkably like another under the same context. Again, no one is reinventing the wheel with every girl, whether you want to label them a Natural or not. Lets not argue semantics.

That is why I said different, there are several different types of naturals some undoubtedly do use a routine that happens to be them. However the best Naturals I know were not guys like that. They were the prize and women came to them.

Some Naturals have routines, some have direct game, some just flirt and shit happens. The 3 best Naturals I know are guys that literally just have fun and women found them attractive, then they capitalized on it. I know you are correct and not disagreeing with the fact that some Naturals use routines but there are also a shit load that don't, and that is my point. Don't make it as if every natural uses a routine when the best Naturals I know didn't use anything of that nature.

That's like all Mexicans steal(I'm Mexican it's why I used it), it's a bull shit statement there are tons of differences between each person don't say they all use Routines, or they all don't. A natural is someone good with women based off of experience and learned behaviors. Those behaviors can be routine but at the same time some of them could just have similar escalation routines(all courtship escalation is routine that I definitely agree with) and be attractive..

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

respectful of your opinion Ill just distill our disagreement to the fact that ALL PUAs I have seen, natural or not, repeat much of the same material they use with one chick with the next. Whether the growth of these memes or routines is organic or contrived may vary.

how about you be a natural all you want, let her do all the talking like you said, and when you get the chance still implement the tricks and DHV.. wouldnt that get you even more results?
you cant be shallow about these things, instead use everything you can, its not a competition of whats better to use..

The stupidest advice I have ever read. It is like saying to a skinny guy: just be muscular.

Confidence is something that you need to work to. Natural has it because he always interact with women. Computer nerd who never spoke with women and are scared of them won't magically have it if you will just tell him. Routines and other shit can provide confidence. After a while it will become usual thing and you won't need them anyway.

Really valid point that naturals still use routines. They just might be routines they invented, or running jokes from their social circle. They didn't invent them to get laid. They're just things that worked that they repeated.

One "natural" I know is a great storyteller and gets laid constantly. I've heard some of those stories a dozen times. But he's not using them thinking "I am going to impress this girl." He's just telling funny stories, because it's cool.

Another guy I know doesn't really use stories... but he still has a few go-to insults and comebacks and nicknames.

Come to think of it, I never used routines... but I still found some winning stories and patterns that could be taught as routines.