First off..

Hi I'm Mr K I'm 23 and I'm new here but I've been reading on the site for the past 2-3 years. I'm quite truthful and respectful of my women. I don't want to come across as an arse but obviously I'm here to get better at life.

Here go's..

We've been friends for years but I'd only see her like every so many months in a friend group mainly. I'm always riding the self improvement wave so always bettering myself. People have recognised this alot over the past 4 years. Every time these women see me I'm new lol so friend zones aren't existing really.
I've always had a lot of girl mates, and yeah alot of them have thought I was gay in the past.. Mainly down to the fact that I don't tend to kiss and tell and always stayed single. I don't really care.
Now I'm pretty sure a few of them are attracted to me but have boyfriends now.

(Bit of background of where I'm at)

Since she split up with her boyfriend few weeks ago, she's been messaging me alot more than she did when she was with him (as they do). I'm quite social so if she asks what I'm up to, I tend to just invite her along. Didn't attend for a while but why do I care, I'm still going lol

I went to her kids birthday with a load of mums.. Wasn't the piss up I hoped for but still came with a present, and had some good conversations with her family, grand parents and that (Y) After that she was with her friends and mum in a local pub and got onto me. I came in for an hour, then when her friends disappeared off into town I took her with me to see my friends and returned her home few hours later.

In the pub her mum asked me to come to her 50th, I attended... Looking a champ great deal of confidence and a hand full of girls I know were there. I'm flirtatious so the girls all really enjoyed my company. It's safe to say that I was the man (Not bragging, just painting you a picture). I was also dancing her her daughter on the dance floor, just the two of us. Gained some man points as the mums were asking would I babysit for them... o_O LOL

Last week, she rang me and said one of her friends has flaked on meeting her for a drink. (This was true, not a way of asking me out)

I met her straight from the gym... She knew that and I made her aware that I'm coming from the gym so my clothing effort is minimal lol after a few cocktails we went back to hers (She wanted to just go bed but I said she'll enjoy herself and 2-3 hours later she was still up), drank a few more, chilled and talked really. Escalated to a point where I was just playing with her hair as she was sat forward, so I was behind. I slept in her bed, she slept in her daughters as she was at the dads.

I don't want to bore you guys too much with small details and I know the way it sounds is she's into me, but I'm not convinced at all. I just think I'm making slow progress.

Here's my predicament..

I'm gonna propose we drink tomorrow. Take her out for 2, then go back to hers and have a few more. I don't drive after 2. Right, say my plan of action is to get us chilled and relaxed on the couch and start escalate kino again...

Then I don't know whether I should risk it all and go in quite strong.. (failure probably resulting in barely talking and she might feel awkward with me, we have everything in common and the most person like me that I know. Plus she knows alot of people I know and I'd rather them not know my business)
Or... Carry on making slow progress, hopefully resulting in her getting more comfortable with me. Is waiting bad?

Sounds stupid typing it to be honest and I'm expecting you guys to just be "Go in hard" but I want to do it in a way where I can't fail, or can't be knocked back to a point where it results shitty.

She's well aware that I want to stay single so she can feel free from any attachment at this stage. She wants to be single too apparently. She seems to give me all the right answers lol
I do like her though... I guess I just have commitment issues and enjoy my freedom with other women.
She should know that I'm attracted to her, I tend to be quite blatant with what I say and like I said, I'm quite flirtatious but kept flirting on a low level at this point.

I would like some advice from experienced PUA's please. No offence to people who haven't been in the game long.

I've been hesitant on making an account here for a long time.
Thank you to those who have read this, I hope it betters someone else's situation also.

Do not go in strong. That increases the chances for rejection from my exp. You need to bait the response you want out of her. You are doing very well, and if you suddenly change your momentum, I feel rejection is more likely.

You should escalate kino - without skipping stages; remember she definitely won't let your hand into her panties if she won't kiss you first. You need to find ways to turn her on, without being obvious. For example, I was invited out to a girls place with her and all her family and kids. When we were finally on the couch together, I started teasing her about her (tight) clothing, looking/touching around her breast cleavage, grabing her thighs, touching her hair, smelling her.. etc. she eventually told me she was "all hot and bothered." Her family told us "you two should go get a place, we'll watch the kids" by the end of the night haha! We probably could of did it... but I made her wait lol If you have the discipline to make them wait it helps a lot. This is because everyone wants to feel validated, especially if she is interested, she will seek validation from you and in it's abscense, the desire gets stronger with time.

If you get to her place again, alcohol will help. I had this drunk mom on her knees begging me to stick it in her after very little foreplay. But don't over do it.... Tease her body in ways I described above, slllooowwwlly... and she should eventually cave in. Find a way to bait her into cuddling with you - subliminally... i.e. I'm cold... come here (to you on the couch). Rub her > kiss > fondle > sex..

You have to play cat n mouse, that escalates the tension much better and softens the rejection. It will be easier to play off as well. Seeming aloof and non-chalant... Remember people want what they -seemingly - can't have.

Thanks dude, we was on her couch 3 days before that too because I let her pierce my ears #nohomo
the way we was sat, our arms were resting against each other like leaning, looking at her phone I think then I just decided to stay leant . I saw that as a good step on my behalf. But on the last week occasion I was talking about to be honest I contemplated making a move but noticed a bit of blood in the toilet haha so planned a return visit lol

What did you mean by.. "You should escalate kino - without skipping stages"
I do try and stay relatively touchy and jokey, but by me saying escalate it, I mean get to the point where we are chilled and I'm simply tickling her abit or something, I was caressing her neck abit when playing with her hair and was just really looking to see if she wanted me to stop or continue but yeah obviously she liked the hair getting played with.

Thanks for reading my essay above lol I have a tendency to go too in depth.

I think drinks is a solid idea... With the idea being to constantly escalate.

You're a friend. A long-time friend... and even though you may be getting a little flirty now, you need to identify yourself to her as a sexual option. Start touching her (not inappropriately, but just like, her hand, her arm, her back, etc)... Make it clear you're interested in her --- but DON'T SAY you're interested in her. DON'T SAY you like her.

Don't say. Show.

Thanks, I'll see what I can pull out of the bag, we had a brief conversation this morning on SPAM. I messaged... (I should of called at the start, my bad)

Drinks.
Tonight.
Pick you up 7:42
(Y)

(I know she's kidless on a Wednesday)

She replied..

Who where
I'm broke

Me:

Nice little cocktail bar I know. Us, £10 is more than enough. I had a good night last week and I'm off Thursday (Y)

Her: Arrrr mannnn we'll go next week. Got all my bills this week and I'm in the mood to paint

Me: Ha well if you get bored of painting before I finish work then give me a heads up. I want a drink tonight somewhere and it will cost hardly anything x

Then we went off topic for abit.



After work at like 4, I gave her a call and basically said "So you aren't up for a drink tonight?" Then I tempted her and she said yeah okay, half an hour later a message "Decided I'm gonna stay in and work, i have too much to do, sorry we'll deffo go next wed"

I was just cool about it.
I don't think that my idea to phone was needy.

Pushing her on going -- after she already said no -- is a little needy.

Re-re-checking to see if she could go at the last minute... also needy.

She knows what you're doing... unless she's an idiot. A non-needy reply would have been:

Her:
Who where
I'm broke

Me:
Lame. Your loss. Maybe another time.

Then you go cold... She'll message you in the next couple days asking about that drink...

That's probably the same response I'd of told my friend a few months back when he was having troubles with a girl but I think your head gets a little clouded when you actually want to do something. Not messaged her since. It wasn't a phone call purely for that purpose, just chatted abit about her business before saying that. Yeah next time I wont propose we do anything by message again.

Ok I've been reading all this and I must say that my heart bleeds for you bud, what I'm about to tell you may be completely off topic but it will completely change your game and turn you into a pickup machine:

1. You need to backtrack to the moment you first decided that you wanna bone this girl and make a list of all the things you did wrong to not get in her pants in the first place.

2. Find and bang 10 other hot/goodlooking women, after this you will definitely get over this girl and she will be able to tell that you are getting all the sex you want just by looking at you.

3. Re-read The Game and The Mystery Method especially the parts that highlight the true nature of women.

4. If steps 1 to 3 have been followed correctly then you will have no time or interest to pursue this girl anymore and will eventually cut all ties with her, her friends that you aren't interested in banging and her mom unless you're into her mom

_________________
I too have seen the matrix

Haha knew her about 8 years, but every 8 months I'm practically a new guy again so my ways always tend to change. Decided I wanted to bang her whilst she was happy in a relationship lol then obviously she became single and started talking to her friends more.

I went round last night and she basically told me about this guy friend who had just told her he liked her (school boy error) and tried it on with her and how it pissed her off. That was 2 days before and was staying with him that weekend for work. She built a bit of a wall with this story, talking how she has no interest in guys anymore and wants to be single... I of course re-assured her that I'm in the same boat and have no interest in a relationship.

Few hours later I was sat next to her and slowly built up to caressing her thighs and stroking her hand. She was happy..

She said "I can't believe I'm still letting you touch me, I usually hate being touched"
when I was stroking her legs, she moved my hand to a higher part of her leg.

She also said:
"Do you stroke all of your friends...?" in which I responded with..
"Not all of them.." She said "which ones?" I said "Just you and Mike" haha got her giggling like.

The only reason I didn't spend the night was because she didn't want her little girl coming and getting in the bed in the night and being weirded out and telling daddy.

But yeah challenge accepted, like I said 'girl' friends is normal to me. So I'll maintain a flirty friendship and extend my reach a little more each time I guess.

I know you see no logic in this big waste of time haha but yeah my best friend has been a lesbian since I was 10, I've always had a massive interest in women psychology.

I wish I signed up here sooner (Y)
and yes.. Point taken in about banging everyone to stop caring about specific ones haha

Well, you're doing very well... progressing at your own pace. That's what I realized is important. You make the game your own eventually.

But the people that posted are generally right.

What I meant when I said, "don't skip stages" was: You have to progress in a logical order to minimize your chances of rejection - that is, don't go for her second set of lips if she hasn't let you have her first set.

I'll give you a personal example: So I dated this girl for a while, and we ended up sleeping together in the same bed, no sex, just sleeping together. I of course cuddled/fondled her, but I never kissed her. I asked her to do sexual things with me and tried to do them of course without asking, but got rejected. After a few sleep overs, we called it quits. I realized my mistake after the fact. I expected sex from a girl that I never made out with -_- such a shame when I know as much as I do.

The fact that she let you rub her upper thighs says you're progressing nicely. Good job on that relationship and carressing responses!