I didn't have time to go into this earlier, so here we go. This debate has been done over and over, and it never gets anywhere. There's no point, just let people do what they wanna do. To get my side out though, I saw this little quote earlier and it really got me thinking:

"A lot of people are just plain fucking scared of the dark, and they’ll follow anyone that’s holding a flashlight." - Joe Rogan

I dunno who the fuck joe rogan is, but for that sentence alone he is a legend. Guys are scared of women and any method which has any credibility, they will follow. More complicated, for some reason, equates to being more credible in the eyes of most people. And direct is by no means complicated... so it gets a lot of flack. However, from what I've seen, anyone who has experienced both sides of the coin and used them both to good effect has always settled for direct in the end. Always.

There are two types of guys who say direct isn't as effective - those who abhor it because it goes against so much of the stuff they've been told by "pickup gurus" over a long period of time, and those who gave it a go and didn't have the right frame, mindset and attitude for it to be congruent. The guys in the first category are not only going by their new found teachings, but also by everything they've been brought up to believe by their parents, society, and the media, so it's no surprise they think the way they do.

Indirect game is fantastic for groups. It's great for minimising rejection and criticism. It's great for getting groups of girls to like you and it makes you feel really good. It does get results. However, there are so many things about it that I just feel are wrong, and counter-productive in the long run. Not to mention how over complicated it is, and how it does very little for your inner game.

Let's imagine you're in a dark mansion and have to find your way to a certain room. Each time you get there, you get transported back to the start and you have to repeat the process. You know roughly where the room is (what the girl wants) but you have no idea how to get there (how to express yourself so you can give that to her), and in the beginning this is very daunting. Obviously because you're intimidated, there's no way you're gonna start walking anywhere. That's approach anxiety, in this case caused by lack of knowing exactly where to go and a fear of bumping into shit (not knowing what to say etc, fear of being rejected/criticised/ignored).

So some dude comes along and has this map. You now have some hope... and there are two choices: study the map for hours and hours so you can get to that room with minimal fuckups and minimal chance of bumping into shit, or get a few basic guidelines from him on what not to do and just man the fuck up and get walking. Obviously most people are gonna choose the first option because it's safer. That's indirect game.

Knowing the route to take gives you the confidence to get moving in the first place. You're obviously still a little hesitant and cautious because you haven't done it before and you know you're gonna stub the odd toe or walk into some shit, or take a wrong turn, but because you feel like you know the way to go it doesn't bother you so much and you get going. That is the begining of your AA diminishing. Once you reach that room, you feel a sense of accomplishment and feel more confident about doing it next time. You can't wait to start over again and see how much smoother you can do.

That's all well and good, but let's say everything switches and you're now in a completely different mansion. Let's call the first one the "club game" mansion, and this one is the "day game" mansion. It's not much different, but you don't wanna hurt yourself, so just to be on the safe side you want the map. Where's that dude with the fucking map? Oh, here he is. "Hey dude with map, what's crackin" - time to study again. So, you do that and get moving, and you get quite good at it. Now you know your way around both mansions and life seems awesome. But OH SHIT SON!!! Next thing you know, you've been transported to the "girl at the local convenience store and there are customers behind you and her supervisor might walk past" mansion. Holy fucking christ! This seems so different, is there a map for this? I'm sure you've seen guys on here asking questions about very detailed or specific scenarios... if they were operating from some basic guidelines that could be applied to every situation they wouldn't be doing that. They shouldn't have to do that, but they don't wanna apply the same principles of general day game stuff because the situation seems complex and different - even though it isn't.

Now then, let's put all of that aside. If you took the second option in the first place you would have no doubt bumped into a whole bunch of shit. You would have stubbed toes, banged your head, shouldered some doorframes. It'd take longer to get to that room because you were following such simple guidelines. Let's say for metaphors sake that those guidelines were survival techniques for finding your way around in the dark - you could easily apply those same techniques to each and every dark-ass mansion you found yourself in. If you used a map for the first one and didn't learn those survival techniques, then every time you ended up somewhere new you automatically needed a map or you'd freeze up and be afraid to move anywhere incase you got lost. Not only did those simple guidelines you learned allow you to go into any situation and know you could find your way, but they made you STRONG aswell because you weren't afraid of getting hurt. You knew from experience that the pain was minimal and would always go away.

What I'm saying is, with indirect, you're following a different map depending on the scenario. You do have some principles and guidelines to follow, but those alone simply cannot guide you because you need a structure and a plan to actually exercise those guidelines. For example, "show active disinterest in your target" - you need to reach a hook point before you can do that, and how you reach that hook point depends completely on the situation. You need to have an opener which suits the situation, whether it is day or night, and where exactly you happen to be also plays a part because opening a girl indirectly in a book store is completely different to one sitting down at a coffee place... nomatter how good you are in clubs, if you didn't have any experience with day game, you wouldn't have a clue where to start because the stuff you'd been doing in clubs just wasn't suitable. You'd need contingencies for everything, openers for a bunch of different places and situations.

With direct, on the other hand, every scenario is catered for because it is versatile. It's an attitude more than it is a method. Yeah, there is a technique and some tact to it, but that technique is derived from the guidelines you're following - not the other way around. For example, being honest and not fucking around with silly head games. You don't need to reach a hook point to do that, you don't need to even engage her friends if you don't feel like it. You can approach directly at any time, any place, in any situation, and the interaction will just flow naturally. There are no pre-requisites, you don't need hook points or DHVs or have to wait for IOIs before you do it, you just do it.

That pretty much sums up my reasons for favouring direct. It's more fun, more rewarding, and girls find it much more attractive. Everything is win-win; you don't care about rejection and your whole attitude is more attractive as a whole. I don't worry about anything. I don't make a big deal of anything. Hell, I even end up getting together with a fair amount of the girls who reject my initial approach ater a while and I have a hell of a time keeping that knowing smile off my face (ok, ok, I don't try to at all cos it's funny to see them get frustrated) when a girl is tying to give me a hard time. Many guys will tell you the exact same thing, and it's no coincidence. Indirect is great though, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever... I just wish it wasn't so damn complicated, cos new guys get overwhelmed so easily. I see it as a short term solution for building inner game and confidence only. It's the beginning of your learning curve.

I didn't have time to go into this earlier, so here we go. This debate has been done over and over, and it never gets anywhere. There's no point, just let people do what they wanna do. To get my side out though, I saw this little quote earlier and it really got me thinking:

"A lot of people are just plain fucking scared of the dark, and they’ll follow anyone that’s holding a flashlight." - Joe Rogan

I dunno who the fuck joe rogan is, but for that sentence alone he is a legend. Guys are scared of women and any method which has any credibility, they will follow. More complicated, for some reason, equates to being more credible in the eyes of most people. And direct is by no means complicated... so it gets a lot of flack. However, from what I've seen, anyone who has experienced both sides of the coin and used them both to good effect has always settled for direct in the end. Always.

There are two types of guys who say direct isn't as effective - those who abhor it because it goes against so much of the stuff they've been told by "pickup gurus" over a long period of time, and those who gave it a go and didn't have the right frame, mindset and attitude for it to be congruent. The guys in the first category are not only going by their new found teachings, but also by everything they've been brought up to believe by their parents, society, and the media, so it's no surprise they think the way they do.

Indirect game is fantastic for groups. It's great for minimising rejection and criticism. It's great for getting groups of girls to like you and it makes you feel really good. It does get results. However, there are so many things about it that I just feel are wrong, and counter-productive in the long run. Not to mention how over complicated it is, and how it does very little for your inner game.

Let's imagine you're in a dark mansion and have to find your way to a certain room. Each time you get there, you get transported back to the start and you have to repeat the process. You know roughly where the room is (what the girl wants) but you have no idea how to get there (how to express yourself so you can give that to her), and in the beginning this is very daunting. Obviously because you're intimidated, there's no way you're gonna start walking anywhere. That's approach anxiety, in this case caused by lack of knowing exactly where to go and a fear of bumping into shit (not knowing what to say etc, fear of being rejected/criticised/ignored).

So some dude comes along and has this map. You now have some hope... and there are two choices: study the map for hours and hours so you can get to that room with minimal fuckups and minimal chance of bumping into shit, or get a few basic guidelines from him on what not to do and just man the fuck up and get walking. Obviously most people are gonna choose the first option because it's safer. That's indirect game.

Knowing the route to take gives you the confidence to get moving in the first place. You're obviously still a little hesitant and cautious because you haven't done it before and you know you're gonna stub the odd toe or walk into some shit, or take a wrong turn, but because you feel like you know the way to go it doesn't bother you so much and you get going. That is the begining of your AA diminishing. Once you reach that room, you feel a sense of accomplishment and feel more confident about doing it next time. You can't wait to start over again and see how much smoother you can do.

That's all well and good, but let's say everything switches and you're now in a completely different mansion. Let's call the first one the "club game" mansion, and this one is the "day game" mansion. It's not much different, but you don't wanna hurt yourself, so just to be on the safe side you want the map. Where's that dude with the fucking map? Oh, here he is. "Hey dude with map, what's crackin" - time to study again. So, you do that and get moving, and you get quite good at it. Now you know your way around both mansions and life seems awesome. But OH SHIT SON!!! Next thing you know, you've been transported to the "girl at the local convenience store and there are customers behind you and her supervisor might walk past" mansion. Holy fucking christ! This seems so different, is there a map for this? I'm sure you've seen guys on here asking questions about very detailed or specific scenarios... if they were operating from some basic guidelines that could be applied to every situation they wouldn't be doing that. They shouldn't have to do that, but they don't wanna apply the same principles of general day game stuff because the situation seems complex and different - even though it isn't.

Now then, let's put all of that aside. If you took the second option in the first place you would have no doubt bumped into a whole bunch of shit. You would have stubbed toes, banged your head, shouldered some doorframes. It'd take longer to get to that room because you were following such simple guidelines. Let's say for metaphors sake that those guidelines were survival techniques for finding your way around in the dark - you could easily apply those same techniques to each and every dark-ass mansion you found yourself in. If you used a map for the first one and didn't learn those survival techniques, then every time you ended up somewhere new you automatically needed a map or you'd freeze up and be afraid to move anywhere incase you got lost. Not only did those simple guidelines you learned allow you to go into any situation and know you could find your way, but they made you STRONG aswell because you weren't afraid of getting hurt. You knew from experience that the pain was minimal and would always go away.

What I'm saying is, with indirect, you're following a different map depending on the scenario. You do have some principles and guidelines to follow, but those alone simply cannot guide you because you need a structure and a plan to actually exercise those guidelines. For example, "show active disinterest in your target" - you need to reach a hook point before you can do that, and how you reach that hook point depends completely on the situation. You need to have an opener which suits the situation, whether it is day or night, and where exactly you happen to be also plays a part because opening a girl indirectly in a book store is completely different to one sitting down at a coffee place... nomatter how good you are in clubs, if you didn't have any experience with day game, you wouldn't have a clue where to start because the stuff you'd been doing in clubs just wasn't suitable. You'd need contingencies for everything, openers for a bunch of different places and situations.

With direct, on the other hand, every scenario is catered for because it is versatile. It's an attitude more than it is a method. Yeah, there is a technique and some tact to it, but that technique is derived from the guidelines you're following - not the other way around. For example, being honest and not fucking around with silly head games. You don't need to reach a hook point to do that, you don't need to even engage her friends if you don't feel like it. You can approach directly at any time, any place, in any situation, and the interaction will just flow naturally. There are no pre-requisites, you don't need hook points or DHVs or have to wait for IOIs before you do it, you just do it.

That pretty much sums up my reasons for favouring direct. It's more fun, more rewarding, and girls find it much more attractive. Everything is win-win; you don't care about rejection and your whole attitude is more attractive as a whole. I don't worry about anything. I don't make a big deal of anything. Hell, I even end up getting together with a fair amount of the girls who reject my initial approach ater a while and I have a hell of a time keeping that knowing smile off my face (ok, ok, I don't try to at all cos it's funny to see them get frustrated) when a girl is tying to give me a hard time. Many guys will tell you the exact same thing, and it's no coincidence. Indirect is great though, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever... I just wish it wasn't so damn complicated, cos new guys get overwhelmed so easily. I see it as a short term solution for building inner game and confidence only. It's the beginning of your learning curve.

It seems you are advocating the direct method. What about the girls who aren't 10's in every dude's eyes? You know, the cute plain-jane (or shy) type girls (the ones I like!) who don't get hit on by every guy in the place. The direct method can catch them off guard and make them uncomfortable because they dont know how to respond. Or even some chick in the grocery store. In that case the indirect method may be better if for nothing else than to warm them up before you go "yo, you sexy baybee."

Or maybe I am over thinking it and its a case of: if she cant handle the direct opener, then she isnt hot enough.

Joey