Ok well all those insecurities, all those negative thoughts, all that steals your confidence, are the missing mat or rebar(reinforcing bar) in your foundation, if you don't fix that you can't gain a strong foundation, it needs that structure within it's self. If you have solid concrete without that rebar in it, the foundation cracks and breaks, losing any strength it can possibly have.

While I know that standing confident makes you feel confident you will not be confident until you gain actual inner game and outer game, you will feel confident for that posture or body language, but you also have to rewire yourself just like Blitz said. You can't just stand confident and be the most confident human being forever eventually you will shift your body language and that emotion will own you again.

You have to find that inner peace, free from emotions, and that freedom from all those thoughts that gave you negative body language, then your body language will be congruent with who you are, that is when you have that foundation, rebar and all. You need a true foundation, not a makeshift foundation.

I am a huge supporter of body language, it has changed my life immensely. I have read more books on body language then most people on these forums have read on pick up. I understand the power of body language, I use it all the time. It covers a lot, including how you stand or sit or whatever is how you will feel. I know you can put a pencil between your teeth for 30 seconds and it makes you feel better. I know a lot about body language and how it effects people.

However, Confidence is body, mind, spirit, emotion, and relationships, it's not just one. That is where so many people come up short in they gain strength in mind but not body, or spirit and mind but not body. Or body and not spirit or mind. Emotion is the most difficult to conquer but it is the most worth it, as we are all controlled by our emotions at times. And then you add all the little poisonous relationships we have that are negative breaking our confidence down.

I understand your disagreement but that is how I feel about it. This after everything I've studied you must have inner game, you can't just shell yourself forever, you have to fill in that shell.

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Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

@OP - Well said[/quote]

Yes but even someone whos studed body language for 10 years can sucumb to his emotions and have say a bad day and fall into the abyss of continual bad body language, thats why you up keep on it... a technique i use is i make sure my body language is correct and positive then i go to a door post and look at all four corners of the door and associate looking at the door with correting my body language over sevral times, and now everytime i walk to a door post or see a door i think of correcting my body language and fix it accordingly, think of it like checking yourself at the door.

And it seems unclear to me what you mean by inner game, like affirmations?

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

Man I know that trick, I've read it 4 different books, straighten your body language as soon as you enter a door way. I don't even have to consciously do it, it is a part of who I am now. Standing confident makes you feel confident and for the moment you feel confident, however that doesn't make you actually confident.

Inner game is confidence in not how you stand, it is confidence in where you are going, who you are, the people you know, the emotion you carry, the life you live, everything. Not just standing, sitting, or walking with confidence. Self belief is the cornerstone of confidence, not standing straight, your body language won't be congruent with how you feel about yourself(inner game) and therefore you will never reach a true confidence.

Self affirmations and positive self image are what people lacking confident need to show their love for their-selves, those who are confident don't use that shit, they are past it. They prove their confidence with their actions, their thoughts don't stray often or long enough to effect them. Confident people are just happier with who they are, where they are going, and what they want. This effects every portion not just body language, I am one of the biggest body language buffs on the forum. I have a thread with over 50K hits on just body language trust me body language isn't the only answer to confidence and natural game. It is a start but not an end.

What happens when you are sitting at home on the couch relaxing, are you going to sit with perfect body language? NOPE, then what happens? You are going to go back to that lack of confidence and your insecurities. Then you walk out the door way and feel confident right? However your not confident because it isn't who you are yet, don't stop at straightening your body language it is a beginning not an end.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

actually in practicing body language your mind will follow your bodyinto confidence and will become congruent, and the magic of it all is you dont always have to think about beacuse you change it once, you feel confident and dont have to worry about it and when you feel like your dragging down or your sad ect.. then you perk up your body language again.. everyone has there bad days.. just beacuse you have strong inner game doesnt mean your not at risk into falling into a depressed unconfident state yourself, and you can rather try and exhaust yourself by building back up inner game over time or you can change your physicallity and fall back into a confident state

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

This argument won't be solved, you won't agree with it no matter how many times I go over it. You will come around, we all do. Some of us aren't quite ready to learn certain things. The fact that you think you can either fix those inner game issues or just change your body language proves this point. It isn't an or game, you need to fix your body language and your inner game. You can't do either you must accomplish both for true confidence.

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Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

well i agree you first need to be unwired from things like movies and media that brainwash you into thinking being a jerk or being suave is the way to getting a girls, but the way you describe it sounds like all inner game is, is confidence.. which its not, but using body language improves confidence, if you disagree take it up with the scintific studies that prove it.

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

Improves you said it yourself. That was my point. It doesn't make you confident, it gives you a feeling of confidence, that is isn't the same. Again I say I've read a shit load of books on body language and have a better understanding then most people(you included), but that doesn't change things. You have to give your life direction, you can't just stand right and you will be this confident successful human.

Why do you keep making it seem as if I disagree that body language helps? You are missing it. I absolutely agree, but that doesn't change the fact that it shouldn't stop at your body language. It has to come from within you as well.

I've had great body language for a long time(people have felt my confidence, presence, and charisma for a while now), but my true confidence didn't come until I fixed the things on my inside. Those pesky little thoughts have to be vanquished because if you do get in a relationship or when you move your life forward you will not be a success, I'm straight up telling you it.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com

cool, i bet you do have a better understanding than me man, and as far as pesky thought you replace them with self affirmations wich i mentioned in my original post.

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if actions speak louder than words then imagine what your intentions are screaming

to succeed you must learn, to learn you must first fail

Id rather be the one in a relationship instead of some guy id pretend to be...

Exactly what Florg says - canned material can be a way to test a new way of thinking, so take disqualification for instance. That is not something that comes natural to people, especially towards members of the opposite sex. Also, canned stuff, and all this advice here gives you a network to rely on, and in a way to blame - if you do a canned line, and it fails, you didn't say it right, or whatever, but at least its not because you're ugly, or she hates you or anything - its a way to save your confidence and the more gains you have with it, the more you can use and be flexible later on. They are a good thing for sure!

From My Understanding natural game is a Natural conequence of being free of fear



learning routines and tactics are routed in some form of fear or another, its a fear of not wanting to put your personailty on the line, self protection-ego

This is something Iv being trying to work on lately after i took a bootcamp with rsd. I'll have to say reccommened, I saw what is possable. I saw that without fear you are a naturally attractive person whole complete and the fucking man. Its in your dna, its your birthright to reproduce, and to attract beautiful women, just like the birds the fish and the penquins lol


were all naturals, now go fourth and mutiply lol

I think the popularly accepted definition of Natural Game right now is marketing related. This is to differentiate one PUA material from another so it has a unique selling proposition.

For me, Natural Game should have a strong anchor on neurological, biological and evolutionary theories. It's Natural Game because, what else? It's based on a scientific understanding of nature.

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Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

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general-questions/topic137931.html

I agree, you also have to add in courtship studies which in some cases is zoological, and psychological. Attraction in this day in age also has to do with our neocortex, not just biological any longer.

You need to look at the true definition of science though. Science is life. It is everything just because you don't look at somethings as science doesn't take away the fact that it really is. I may not be able to name every PUA style(not many in fact) but at the same time if you asked me about any style I can explain why and how it works with just a minimal description of the style.

Science-
1.a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2.systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3.any of the branches of natural or physical science.
4.systematized knowledge in general.
5.knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.

So believe it or not as much as you hate to admit it PUA is a form of science. Mystery, Gambler, RSD all these guys gained their "systems" from experiments(or experiences if you will), they learned from them and modified until they gained consistent success. Trying something repeatedly or changing what you do to find the right formula is a part of science. This is exactly what you do in PUA.

All of PUA is rooted firmly in science, all those gurus studied evolution, psychology, body language(kinesics), courtship, etc. Not always through books(though most did) but through their own personal experimentation(or experiences if you wish to call them that) with using certain things. So I think perhaps you should open your mind to more then just neurological, biological, and evolutionary theories.

It may not be a good idea to use someone else's system, but it is a great idea to use it to learn from. "A wise man learns from his own mistakes, a wiser man from the mistakes of others." As recently posted in one the threads I authored. I may have used this in there though, it is a saying I use a lot.

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Just another guy from back in the day.

Blogging again living life: http://www.Scienceofnaturalgame.com