I just wanted to post this as more of a rant than anything else. I don't get why people don't realize that learning "natural" game is the same thing as learning a method. I see all these posts on here that say things like "Mystery Method isn't natural" and "Why methods don't work" and other shit like that. Being natural at something means you were born with the ability to excel in whatever the skill set may be. If you are not born with this skill then you can't just snap your fingers and become natural. You have to LEARN to emulate what naturals do. So like it or not, if you are in the process of learning to pick up women and you weren't born with this skill; you ARE using a method. Whether it comes from books or your own observations its being learned.

So what is it about all these guys knocking methods?
Is it just their male ego coming out to say " I don't need help?"

It sounds to me that there's a lot of people on here that haven't quite gotten a full grasp on all of this.

What do you guys think about all this?

Guitarist, I like rants...it shows me that people are passionate about what they're doing right now. So please here mine

On not being a natural when you need to learn game
Here's a metaphor: when you're learning to drive a car, you're having difficulty with the pedals, with shifting gears...and you need to pay attention to ALL of that while keeping your eyes on the read - it SUCKS, it's hard to learn. You need to watch the mirrors, time the moments you stomp on the brakes, etc.

But after a while, the pedals aren't so hard to use anymore..after a while, same goes for the gears and the mirrors - practice makes perfect. And slowly but surely, you've integrated everything about driving a car into your brain - you do it on auto-pilot.

Every time you step in your car, it will feel like you have done it all your life, naturally: seemingly without effort, without thought, without forcing things...it's doing while not thing. Taoism calls this wu wu wei

How is that NOT being a natural - doing it without thought, like you were born to do it, doing it effortlessly?

About natural game not being a "method"
Here I come with my fisherman example: there's this man I know, a retired fisherman who roamed the oceans for almost 30 years. All he ever saw was his boat, his fish, and the docks. So how was he ever going to meet and date women?

1. By knowing the docks he needed to visit very well - he would give tours of the place and the fancy boats, especially to the richer women who were in love with yachts...and they would fall for him and his raw, passionate, adventurous "sailor attitude" and stories of the dangers at sea
2. By inviting whatever women he would meet on his boat, taking them out fishing, standing behind them while teaching them how to fish with a silly net...putting his hands on their curves as he guided them, on purpose...so they would crave more physical contact..then he would fake boat, or fish trouble or weather trouble so he had all the time he needed for it...

He did 1 and 2 endlessly, for many years, he never read a single book about attraction - but doing what he did was the ONLY way to make HIS unique circumstances work for himself to get women.

That's all a natural, in essence, is: making YOUR unique circumstances work for you...basing seduction on YOUR life while the community tends to base lives on seduction

But...aren't the fish and the boat trouble, the sea stories, the tours..all calculated actions repeated over and over = routines = METHODS of meeting women? YES, naturally learned methods.

So, in reality, every natural has his own set of routines, lines, stories and whatever to make HIS (or HER) circumstances work.

Dare I say this metaphor: Mystery Method and other routine based systems are like the "computer market" with it's computers, hard drives, internet, chips, etc. the genral style...while each natural out there? His or her method are like the one creative employee of Google, IN that computer market. The generally speaking vs. the specialist, that's all there is to it really

its great that you mentioned that, the mystery method and the reasons mystery provides for his methods are infact breakdowns of natural game,
when i look back at my interactions when i used to do just be natural i was so amazed that mystery was able to pick up what naturals do and the routine,
like when he teaches us to neg, naturals do that unknowingly as teasing and picking on girls or whoever through their cocky funny attitude

he is very intelligent to actually be able to break it down as scientists would probably have no balls to put themselves int he place of a person who is repeatedly trying to pick up women.

and for the question are people knocking methods, well i did start of sort of like that thinking i could just learn to be natural by myself again, but what ive learned is its hard(take it slow here) to do what you used to do,when you dont know exactly what you used to do
so i started to do canned material to start off slow and then jus start replacing canned material with on the spot conversation, in other words ive just used canned materials to get a base and build myself up.

the thing about naturals is they have way more experience in social interactions and ina whole variety of ways with both men and women.

I think that the difference between natural game and scripted game is that with scripted game you're memorizing a bunch of "lines", whereas with natural game you are learning more of the structure of the game, and filling it in with your own material.

I think even with scripted game you can eventually learn the general structure of an interaction, using the lines as "training wheels" so to speak. As long as you're being genuine and congruent to yourself, I don't think it matters which path you choose.

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