I met this really attractive girl 2-3 years ago and I didn't exactly have game at the time and I got friend zoned. After awhile of tilting at windmills I gave up and moved on.

Recently she's come back into my life because she needed my help. She came to see me at my new job (we used to work together) and I treated her very differently - you know, arrogantly. I took her for granted, presumed that she was hot for me, and bantered. She was impressed by the new job, too. ("Wow, is this your office?" Yes, it is.)

So she asked me to go with her to do a sales call. I quoted her 50 an hour and she whined about it but I just showed her the price list at my new job. "Wow, you make 50 an hour here?" Yes, I do. Fine, so she said she'd pay me that amount and told me to dress up.

So I dressed up as well as I could; I wore a suit, tie, blue shirt (matches my eyes), and everything I could. When I met her she was floored. She said it was too bad the sales call we were about to make wasn't on a girl because then for sure she would buy. Then we went to make some photocopies and she asked me to lend her some change because she didn't have any on her. I told her I would as long as she gave me a kiss on the cheek. She refused and I walked out. She literally had to chase me down the street and drag me back.

So I relented and lend her the money for the copies and we went and made the sales call. Afterwards we went to this cafe and talked and I kino'd the hell out of her. By the time I was done she was kino'ing me back. I felt good like I was finally escaping the zone.

Now she calls me regularly and wants to hang out and have breakfast with me 3-4 days a week. She invites me to see movies with her. I introduced her to my wingman and he said it was obvious the girl was digging me. The only problem is, I can't see to take it sexual with this girl. Even a kiss on the cheek is too much for her. She's iNvestor-Denier, but c'mon - a kiss on the cheek?! I decided I wouldn't call her any more, but she still calls me (yesterday and today), but really I'm thinking that it's a waste of time investing further into a relationship (if you can call it that) with a girl who doesn't want to take it to the next level.

The other thing that bugs me is she only wants to dump on me. She talks about her problems with her ex, with a student of hers who she likes but doesn't seem to like her back, etc. I'm tired of it.

I just played it cool like a friend the last time we were out together and I saw a girl I liked. I went to chat the girl up and Isabel got all catty over it. Any time I express interest in another girl she runs the girl down as much as she can. This must surely be an indicator of interest, right?

Maybe I'm just fooling myself and I never escaped from the friend zone at all. I think I should just throw in the towel. What do you guys think?

Friend-zone's a bitch! Ask her to come over to your place for drinks one weekend night, if she says no, you may freeze her out and try again after a week or so, but my guess is you're wasting your time and energy on her. If she says yes, have a bottle of good red wine ready, dim the lights and put some music. Make it obvious you are not just being friendly - the whole wine + dim lights + music ON A WEEKEND NIGHT (the old excuse "I have to be up early tomorrow" doesn't fly) has an inherent sexual vibe. Escalate some contact and within 20 - 30 minutes go for the kiss. If she LJBFs you, go along the line "I am too attracted to you to be just friends" or "I would be deceiving you if I told you we can be only friends". Make her understand that LJBF is not working, not in an ultimatum kind of way, but rather as you being a man that knows what he wants and is confident and outspoken.

The longer you let it drag, the lesser chance you have of getting her... so hurry up!

Good luck!

I think you are a smart kid who thinks he's too smart learn pick up from the ground up. You have no knowledge base. You have no skill set. You have no experience to fall back on. You probably didn't have an older brother or uncle who taught you the ropes.

Your story hurts man... Ugh... that really sucks. There's nothing worse than to be into a girl who doesn't return your interest. But your ability for this little game of ours really sucks. I mean. . . you're so confused that you put this little story in the 'mid-game' section of this forum. There is nothing 'mid' about this story. In fact, there is nothing even remotely related to pick up going on here. Your role here is part shampoo boy at the hair salon to whom the girl can say what ever the hell she wants to say and another part "big brother" to whom she can send off on errands. And you think of "sex" as the next level from shampoo boy/ big brother?

What would you tell the new hire who asks you for sales advice for a particular client... but it's 100% clear to you that he knows nothing about sales and has never even read one book on the topic? You'd probably flip him a book and offer some general advice for the client on hand... so here it is:

1. For your personal benefit... Figure out this little game. It doesn't take much... it's just a damn conversation... and good news for you! It's essentially a sales gig.

2. You've got to figure out how to carve a smooth path from where you are now to the point where you have your cock buried down her throat. You asked for a peck on the cheek in a professional setting: think about it... is this a smooth path to her vagina or not? What you did was "test" her to see if she is into you. This has NOTHING to do with actually romancing her and everything to do with fulfilling your low-confidence curiosity as to whether she might like you or not.

3. Get out of "ask" mode and get into the "turn her on mode". You are trying to figure out whether she likes you or not... so you dig for clues... and based on this perception, you will ask for sex. Think about this cycle in terms of sales. Would you go to a client and dig for clues to see if he likes your shit? ... then based on that perception, ask that they buy your shit? This is completely ridiculous. No, you go out there and turn him on to your shit any and every way possible. If your client's way in is through savings, then you do it. If his way in is through increased revenue, that's your focus. If his way in is through his ego, you'll even cater to that. But for some odd reason, in the World of WOMEN, you sit there and try to figure out whether she likes you or not...

4. Until you sort some of these things out, press the reset button and keep her away. If you can reset in one day, fine... do it. If it takes you 3 years, go ahead and wait that long because nothing will happen until you sort yourself out.