It's tough. That's why a lot of people start with routines. You get a clear answer on "what do I say?" People tell you exactly what to say, and you say it, and sometimes it works.

And then there are people who realize that what you say won't work unless it makes sense in the moment. So you have very simple rules like "be confident", or "make her chase you". Which is closer to the truth, but harder to understand.

That's why a lot of people start with a specific system (Love Systems, Mystery Method, etc.). All the advice basically leads to the same path, but it's explained and organized differently, with different emphasis.

wow that is really interesting. I'm currently reading the game and how to get beautiful girls in your bed. how much does it cost to take a workshop? I want to be one of the best

I don't mean to sound rude but dont waste your money on a useless workshop. You will get better with women by pushing yourself and talking to beautiful women.just use your motivation as fuel to improve your love life.

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thats probably a good idea, running game shouldnt cost much other then a cover to get into a club or what ever. I herd one work shop can cost $3000:S

I know it's a steep price, but I've done one and found it extremely worthwhile.

http://www.lovesystems.com/training-pro ... a-bootcamp

It lets you skip a lot of trial and error that can be frustrating at the start. I've seen a lot of guys who have such a bad time the first few times that they give up. Or guys who have a great attitude and refuse to give up, but never figure out what they're doing wrong.

The value of a bootcamp is having that expert a few feet away who can tell you about those mannerisms and habits that might be screwing you up.

Not all guys use bootcamps. That's cool too. Just do what's right for you.

you know that is true. some people will and do get frusterated, where as others are determined. I'm one of those determined people, and I wouldnt mind a workshop I think it would be great especially for myself and the up comming PUA's community in my city.

As soon as you can when you approach a girl.

ok, so when ever I approach I'll say something like hey guys hows it going, or hey I want to show you guys something, as soon as I am saying that I should start kino by touching them on the shoulder?

Yeah. I mean, it should feel natural. You can't force it. But if you don't know what "natural" feels like, you should just go for it and learn by trial and error. Generally, you want it to be *after* you open, not before or during your opening as that can be creepy. You do it when you break passed the usual social ice, and you're actually having a normal conversation with her.

This kind of touching is considered friendly. There's lots of guys who do it to other guy friends. Part of what makes it natural is that they're not calculating some sexual intent behind it. At this point they're just being friendly.

Yep, get out there and do it yourself.

See if you can get some DVDs from PUAs as inspiration.

Post on forums with the outcomes of situations and get other people's opinions.

I don't see the point in paying for a seminar. Get a DVD so you can at least review the information.

ok so just after I open, what about a magic trick that involves doing some kino? does that work? or does that come off as creepy? where can i buy dvd??

You're too caught up in "traditional PUA" stuff. It's completely backwards to think like that. They only sell it that way because that's what men want to hear. Men love logic, step by step processes, and thinking that for a specific set of inputs, you can get a specific output for a girl. It doesn't work like that.

You have to get out there, try some of the techniques talked about in the DVDs (try getting free stuff, like on YouTube, eg. David Wygant) but focus on being in the moment, get good at trying to work out how she's feeling, be concious of how you're coming across (like if you were watching yourself), and reacting to what needs to happen in that specific situation, not following some "plan"...

And try stuff, see what worked, what didn't, think over it, discuss it here, etc... that's how you gain experience.

ohhh i see, I find it hard because all the guys I know about are traditional, i have a couple ideas, that I would like to try out. one of which is I play soccer. and for a soccer initiation I was thinking I would go around a bar with a white shirt on and say to girls write on me for my soccer initiation how does that one sound?
what are some good videos to learn what she is feeling?
are you a coach?

The soccer shirt is a little gimicky, like PUAs who rely on magic tricks or palm reading. Nothing wrong with that, because it can work. But (a) even though being athletic is a positive, running around like you're being initiated isn't all that cool. And (b) you may as well start off on the right foot, so you're not the guy who always has to wear a soccer shirt to meet people.

Why not just learn to open girls with normal conversation?

I could deffently do that... but I'm not the greatest conversationlist. of course I can go up to a girl and say hey hows it going, but from there I'm kinda lost