To anyone who has joined this community in hopes of finally finding love or personal development you are being fooled. The greatest sarge by Pick Up Artists is YOU!
The people the run this site do not care about you and neither does anyone that post on side site that hopes to make a name and trust me it is most of us. Your well being to these so called "Gurus" is nothing more than a dollar sign. A Lay. That is it. The person that women are attracted to are your equalized perfection and in-perfections. Build on yourself and master your qualities, hobbies, and abilities and also take on new hobbies.
You are a human being and of value. You do not need these so called gurus to tell you are not good enough to attract or to be enjoyed.
We are in a seriously state of emergency with our economy and these fools want you to pay thousands to buy their books, videos, and bootcamps. Well I say no! YOU ARE NOT A DOLLAR SIGN! Gain some confidence, learn to leave your bubble, and enjoy life.
Quite educating yourself to enjoy life and just let it happen.
Out of fear people will post against this post. Anyone who might have been on the mystery methods boards knows my reputation. Many of my methods work and on of Styles first few wanted to post an ebook with me.
If any admin or Guru wants to challenge me, well bring it. You have just been called out for what you are. This is not about money. You destroy people where as I attempt to build.

I agree that most "gurus" out there are full of shit, especially when they tell you they have some "new and powerful technique. This technique is SOO powerful that bla bla bla" Thats all marketing and hype and the way pick-up is commonly taught in the community does sicken me. This is why I spun my wheels for years (even after taking a bootcamp) with pretty much NO results until I finally found a good teacher who guided me through the ups and downs of the learning process and who I eventually taught with. Not EVERY instructor out there sucks (eventhough I agree that A LOT do). And while it IS a business, there ARE some instructors out there who DO care and really do offer good advice, not just about what to say to girls, but also about how to go about this learning process and the right mentalities to have.

But, I agree with everything you said about enjoying life, cuz obviously THAT is the main goal. Cuz pick-up isn't just about getting girls, its about enriching and improving EVERYTHING in your life. And the more you improve other areas of your life, the easier getting girls becomes.
True shit.
Although as far as the whole "guru" thing goes, I think a lot of the big names in the community are the ones who are kinda full of shit, and thats WHY they are big names. Because they focus a lot of energy on marketing. There are a lot of guys who learned from these big names and started their own companies, who are a little smaller, but they actually DO do their best to help guys. One of the guys I taught side by side with is AMAZING how much extra time he puts in (a lot of times without getting paid extra) just to help guys out. I've met some sleeze balls in the community, but I've also met some genuine honest teachers.

this page itself has the same point as YAhoo Answers, except this help is better. this place is where the afc and noobs describe a certain situation and want help with what to do.

the things they teach you are working to a certain extend, but yes they say some shit about it because they want money as we all do. RSD is a total copy, but who cares? it works for me, and owen / tyler is a pretty sick pua. sign up for their emails, and they give you nice advice.
sign up for adam lyons + gambler = nice advice too.
sign up for dave d and actually buy his stuff, then you learn to live life better with this innergame stuff like a complete social winner.

do what you want, and let us do as we want, im sure we already considered your points and those who just realize all this pua stuff now will eventually ALSO realize that girls arent the point of life; as well as all of us.

the brave souls replied from almost 200 views...that fact of the matter in all of this is simply and solely becoming the best person you can possible be. you can know and understand all of the ioi's and tactics and that onyl leads to one thing...a one night stand. I would say that most men join the community to not find this. The first thing one must understand is...self worth. You are a human and of value. The rest falls after. If you are over weight...well start working out. If you are shy...either A) start going to karaoke bars or B) join a local chapter of Toast Masters International. Read more. Comedy books are key. "Faking It" by college humor has helped me more in my game than the book the game. Constantly pick up new hobbies and be willing to try new things. I have made candied acorns and have learned how to pickle Okra and have brewed my own beer. How many people in the world can say that? When your hobby is pick-up you become a failure. As strange as it sounds the fact that I can bring up in conversation the I know how to pickle women want me to teach them how to do it. Yeah it smells good awful but it is fun and new experience. I never went to a boot camp nor would I ever unless Juggler invited me for free. Self improvement will take you so much further than a bootcamp. A cookbook is 30 bucks at most, a homebrew kit cost about $100 bucks. Brewing beer takes between 6-12 hours. That is quite a bit of time to get to know someone and provide a different experience. It is an awesome date.
The only thing you need to learn is self confidence and self worth. There is not a bootcamp that will teach you this. Quit buying into the superficial. It will take you no where.

im a newby and not like u. but i think your forgetting one thing ,and thats what its like to be an afc these things have helped me in realizing the very things that u say we should realize.but its like a natural saying "just have confidence." remember now? just an afcs point of view

This forum is like the California Gold rush.

Lets get into the setting:

It's 1849, your fresh arrived in California, looking for a better life and a chance to make your fortune. So head to the streams and rivers, and start panning for gold, once in a while you will get something useful, hold onto those nuggets of usefulness and use them to improve your situation cast away all the shite, listen to others but be wary of their agendas, have the wisdom and not desperation to see through all the old wives tails and use valueble info & remember - panning naked will not improve your prospecting chances.

not quite sure i agree fully with your statement OP. a lot of AFCs come here to find out about gaming and many are succeeding. In that regard how is the board a waste? Though i may not believe in a masters "new amazing fool proof method" I do approve that some of the things they talk about are genuinely useful, along with the comments and criticisms help everyone on this message board

I agree and disagree. What your saying is (or at least what I’m think your saying) that TRUE inner game is more valuable than any routine you can learn and to not spend thousands of dollars just for a false since of confidence... and in that fact I agree with you... I also agree that PU has become commercialized... but here is where we differ. If you want to get better talking to girls... talk to girls... don't brew beer... these hobbies MAY make you more interesting and exciting but if u can't get you foot in the door... u still aren't getting anywhere... Like joshuatree said remember what it’s like to be an AFC... There comes a point when as a PUA you should outgrow canned material... but many aren't there yet...

All things considered though good… and ballsy post!!! Respect

To the OP, I appreciate the points you are making, but in reference to your part about being confident and breaking out of your bubble, there are people out there who need help doing that, who may not be able to do that by themselves.
I think "be confident" is the worst advice you can give someone who's starting out PUA. The newbies are saying "Well how do I BE confident?", and they're left dead in the water without knowing where to start!
You have to see it from their point of view. For many people yes they can learn to be confident by themselves without help, and yes there are "gurus" out there who attempt to prey on their desperation, but in the end of the day, the majority of men who take up PU are men with the best of intentions - who are tired of being mistreated and disrespected, who want to delve into the mind of a woman and learn to attract them better than they ever could have before, to build attractive lifestyles and be their best selves. Very few of us would be practicing PU if it was as simple as "Being confident".
My two cents.

Anyone who is surprised that these are all marketing sites must be an idiot.

But make a name? Who gives two shits about making a name? I have better things to do for money than to try to rehash "Speed Seduction" which IMO was the last word and came out in 1994. Everything else since then has been just a useful footnote.

And the lesson? Don't pay for any lessons, download the ebooks for free and lurk on the free forum. As soon as you give money to the PUA "gurus", you've lost.

I don't know if that's really true. I never paid for SS-- got it somewhere, I think Ross may have posted it for free on a newsgroup or something-- but it would certainly have been worth $20 or whatever considering all the good I got out of it over the years. I would have had no game and nothing if not for that.

I am very pleased that people are reading this post. Somethings that really stood out like a thorn was about being confident and a comment about hobbies. Let me elaborate. Yes when first starting especially when leaving you box things that are taught here do work. Getting your foot in the door, that approach and approval, is the most difficult. With that being said focus on that. Once you are accepted by the set nothing else maters unless you really become awkward. Keep in mind the more that you listen ad allow the target (i hate that term by the way) to talk the more she reveals. The more she reveals the more you get to know her and the more you know her the greater you can stimulate conversation and control the direction it goes. With all of this being said you also need to pay attention to body language. Know if the set is dead. PUA instruction will not always work no matter how much that they want to tell you that it will. Sometimes you need to accept your loose and move on to the next woman. These tactics are not fail proof as much as they want you to believe that they are.
As far as who ever posted hobbies and trying new things well...going to be blunt and to the point you are dead wrong. any guy can take a girl out for coffee or an expensive dinner or a movie. but i can tell you what right now if i called a girl and asked her to come over to help me brew beer and 10 minutes earlier another guy called her to do something boring like getting coffee I am pretty sure she is coming over to brew beer or coming over to pickle, or to finger paint. If you are looking for only being good at pickup, talking to women, and/or have a one night stand then I agree with you. Once you are in and she is interested, you have to accept that she IS also interested in other guys too. What will make you different and more fun and interesting? New interesting hobbies and date ideas are very important.

Whoever said it would always work on one given set?

NOBODY HAS EVER CLAIMED THIS. Not the most outlandish bullshit artist has ever, EVER claimed such a ridiculous thing, that I know of.

What they DO claim is that unless you are extremely physically disadvantaged in some way, you CAN massively improve your success with women. That much IS true.

I am in no way making any money on this whatsoever-- I say this as a shameless plug in favor of Ross Jeffries and his Speed Seduction programs.

Speed Seduction changed my entire life. You don't have to pay a dime for it either, you can hear Ross talk for free on Youtube all day.

Sorry to contradict you, because I totally do hear what you're saying about marketing bullshit. Everyone is trying to make money off of it and it's an increasingly saturated pie.

BUT IT FUCKING DOES WORK.