Neediness. It is an unattractive quality that we all have or had at some point. It is a trait that can be calibrated.

We (the PUA-community in its entirety) know it well. It is one of the first teachings, and one of the most commonly mentioned when speaking in regards to how to portray yourself.

There are many things that make up neediness and there are many ways it will and can be displayed. Meaning....there are thousands of big and little actions that will make you come off as needy. Body language, tonality, improper communication, over communication, the list goes on and on and on.

Neediness is both a frame and core issue. It can be something that you ARE or something that you are coming off AS.

let me pull up the dictionary here. Neediness is a state of need. Someone in that state would be considered needy.

Needy is defined as:

1.Being in need; impoverished.
2.Wanting or needing affection, attention, or reassurance, especially to an excessive degree.

As I pointed out above, being needy has been laid out as a bad thing in the Pick Up community. Which, for the most part it is. Just reference the above definition; wanting or needing affection, attention, or reassurance....that makes it seem like you have low self confidence, a challenged social life, and scarce preselection value. If you are just meeting a person, just opening a set, or in any of the stages of whatever form of pickup you are studying, conveying any more than an ounce of neediness is monopoly jailtime. reroll after reroll.

So by now we should all understand that to be a successful Pick Up Artist, neediness is one of the many traits that you must calibrate.

However, NOTICE I chose calibrated instead of resolved. If your goal is to pick up as many people as possible, and not create any real long term connections...then you are fine getting rid of it altogether - it will save you the hassle of ever having to deal with emotional bonds or people inquiring about relationship status.

For the rest of you who care about humans, being needy is like being emotional. Neediness is actually a collection of emotions that forms a state of mind. And what is another thing we learned? Use emotions, but use them appropriately. Have any (positive) state of mind you wish, but convey it appropriately.

So YES there are times when you need to convey things that make you look a little less metal; that make you more penetrable and gives notice to a lowered "shield" or "wall" if you will.

Needs Wants and Desires are always confused with one another. I am not going to "bore-face" with any more definitions but I will say that all three are used, are (i)needed(/i), and should be used. And they are used sometimes the same way or in different ways, at different times.



Realize, these are not things that you should use unless you are looking for something more. Yes, I made a joke above about non-LTR seekers. But sometimes thats a good thing - there is nothing wrong with not seeking a relationship (as long as you follow the Golden Rule of Pickup obviously).
What I am trying to teach or show here is for people on the market for a long term relationship. People who find themselves in a lot of dead end week-longs, that don't want to be. People who might be in a good situation with another man or woman, but don't know how to push things forward - and want to. People who want LTRs and can't find a way to make it happen. Or finally, people who are in LTR's and feel like there should be more contribution from one party (or maybe even yourself).

Using this stuff when you don't actually care is lying and manipulation. Being emotionally faux will get you kicked in the nuts and is not something that good people or pickup artists need to be to get women. However, again, if your relationship is strong but it is not upgrading to the level you want (which, you might want to sit down and take a look at why...), this might help.


Onto what all of you readers should have figured out by now....my point is to say that showing a little neediness is good. Neediness goes hand in hand with conveying attached-ness. Wants, Needs, Desires...show that you need, want, or desire your partner. When you need, want, or desire your partner (or vice versa), there will be signs that show you care and that will convey emotion. However, it is your job to control the signs; you must convey these things in select amounts at select appropriate times.
You mustn't show too much, or actually even care too much, too soon. When I say calibrate I mean change these things on your inside frame. If you care too much too soon, work on lessening that - remove yourself emotionally; don't become heartless...and don't not care, but get to a point that is reasonable and then build it back up as the relationship builds.

You like the other persons company? Show it. Prove it. Calling them to hang out might be enough for some relationships; but others might need to know you like their company, and want to be in their company. DO NOT get this mixed up with a lack of self confidence or an undesirable dependency - most of the time it isn't, just normal growth of something.

If you show them you want to be part of their life (I am not going to get into how, that is for each person to decide) you are going to advance the relationship. SELECT AMOUNTS at appropriate times and at the appropriate level.

If you surprise visit them at work after your Day2, there might be a negative result. But if you surprise them at work after a "long night" two weeks in, that is going to convey care, and physically show that you are thinking of them.

If you don't show that you WANT to be part of their life when the opportunity arises or the time is appropriate, you are risking the chance of coming off as not caring. It will seem like you don't DESIRE to be with them (need doesn't come into play). And what sensible partner is going to want to be with someone who doesn't desire to be with, or to care for them?

Wants Desires and Needs. Not only is it about showing them your desire and displaying your want, it is also about neediness. You can show through wants and desires that you care and are thinking of them, but it won't be until you show a minimal amount of (i)need(/i) that you will display an emotional (b)attachment(/b) FOR them and TO them.


You can want someone and desire to be around them, but this still doesn't mean you need them. Which for the first part of a relationship is perfectly normal and fine. Only once you have reached mutual core depth should it, and will it, become something of a need. Don't misinterpret need for dependency.

Need shows you need to be part of their life. Dependency shows that you need to be part of them.
Want shows your desire to be with or around them.

Again, if you get to the point that you know wants and desires exist and you have exchanged this, it moves to need. If you skip that part or don't show it, you are not going to show that you want to be part of their life. No one is going to take someone to their core unless they know the other party wants to be part of that....

And how will they know unless you display a little need.


Now the next question is HOW do you display these things? Well, wants and desires should be easy. You do that through nice gestures and compliments. The need is a little harder. Being needy is tricky - it goes back to the beginning. No mater how deep or great the relationship is, too much neediness or too much dependency is a turn off and a killer.

You want to get deeper, you want them to need you, and you want them to know you need them.
Does not sound very attractive huh? Well, it is once you get to a certain level. There is a reason for relationships; and if you didn't know that the other person was part of you and you were part of them, it would seem like a false relationship, no?

If a relationship is built in a healthy way and both parties staggered through its "leveling" together, you won't have to do this. The mutual need for each other is there. Notice again I did not say dependency; at this stage, the need is voluntary, intentional, and enjoyable.

If that is not the case, but you and the relationship are ready, how do you do this?
What little things can you do to show you need them, and in turn get them to show you they need you? Well, first you take a step back and MAKE SURE that you are ready for that; that the relationship is ready for that. That you have passed want and desire and have gotten to need. The signs, although I can't list them for some reason, are obvious. Great phone dynamic, great date dynamic, great vibing, the frequency of hanging out, what you do when the two of you hang out, and how much fun you and he/she had. How you two depart each others company. How you communicate. What you talk about. These are just a few of the things you can use as signs to gauge a relationship.

At last resort you can bring it up, but you really shouldn't. If you are inquiring of the other party or are telling them your position, you will instill an unnecessary and sometimes undesirable pressure. Whats to say they want to go deeper? Whats to say they want you to need them? Bringing it up, no matter how good your intention, is going to come off as that disgusting type of needy...the type that no one likes and no one is attracted to. So, thats why you use verbal communication as a last resort for this.

Don't try to advance a relationship that isn't ready or that is obviously not going anywhere. It won't work. How do you know if it is ready? By judging their needs, wants and desires! Their actions, body language, tonality....pay attention to the details and you will know.


What if they have none? What if they are not showing them? Well if they have no needs or wants or desires, then they are not human...and you are probably setting yourself up for an anal probe.

That only leaves that they are not showing them. If they are not showing them, that leaves two scenarios:
1.) They want and desire you, but are not ready to need you
or 2.) a defense mechanism has kicked in; even though you are at the core, they still feel they need to have a little wall - so they are not completely open.

You pick. The actions will be the same for both....

Calibration ladies and gentleman. Figure out where the relationship stands and change it. You display small acts of increasing need until you get over the wall. If they are at the point of wanting you and desiring you, but don't need you? Make them want and desire you more until you get to the level OF need. Do that by gradually increasing your communication, presence, emotional display, and nice gestures.


How about on the opposite spectrum? What if you are too needy, or they are too needy? Again, Calibration! Read back above; take steps to decrease your need...go back to wants and desires. Lay off the throttle and put less pressure on things; no matter where you are in a relationship, the less serious subject matter, the more fun...the more fun, usually I would say the healthier it is!

Unfortunately for the latter part, they are themselves. You can not calibrate them. You need to sit them down and COMMUNICATE where you are at - considering they probably do not understand things about dynamic.

In a healthy relationship leading, dominance, and power is constantly being given and taken...one of the things that makes a relationship fun. But there is always a time when BOTH parties want the other to let their fucking guard down and just let them need the other. Otherwise, how will you know that you are not more than just friends with benefits?

If you don't convey that you need them, why should they convey they need you?
This sounds like a lot for such a small topic, but a lack of proper need want desire display will only cause confusion for one of the parties, maybe both.
You'll be placed (or you'll place) in the onion wrong; you'll calibrate wrong; your emotional actions will be all out of place.

example:
girl: "okay, I am with a guy who I think likes me. he brought me coffee and we have hung out over 5 or 6 times. He looks like he is having fun whenever we hang out. But...but...he rarely calls, he doesn't compliment me, and when we are together he doesn't really talk about deep personal things. Well, I guess this is just going to be whatever its going to be. I can't invest any more until he shows me something...."

If you cant find time or the willingness or the ability to show your appreciation for the other person, then how are they going to know that you like them, that you are want to be with them or that you want to be around them?

How are they going to know where to put you in their onion, or them in yours? How will they know how to calibrate? How are they going to know how much attention to give you or how much attention they want from you? Without calibrating and displaying appropriate amounts of needs wants and desires you will create a surface relationship.

That is why a little bit of need is needed to advance or maintain a healthy long term relationship. I am open to hear any opinions or additions.


EMBRACE THE NEED!

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wow thanks for posting that.

if i didn't see this i probably would have F'd up my next LTR. i guess some PUA philosophies don't translate over when you are in a LTR.

See there was me thinking that being clingy and needy were too different things. (But similar)
Now im totally confused. I think that was the longest post ever, i was unable to read it all just incase my head exploaded.

So clinginess? Somebody clear this up will ya.
So they both mean the same thing.
Why the hell do women get turned off if you act even the slightest bit clingy. I lose more and more respect for women as each day goes by.

I stopped reading because I think you made the point in the first 5 or 6 paragraphs.

It seems fair, but I'm assuming you're talking about comfort stages. It can be almost used as a vulnerability that you can almost guarantee that the other person feels deep down also - a connection.

Neediness doesn't have to be weakness, but the two come together most of the time.

_________________

I'm a winner - I am going to win.

I think Locke is talking about what happens past any stage in the M3 model. M3 tells you how to start a relationship, Locke tells you how to maintain it.

It was very illuminating, Lockstar ©. I guess that's where I was going wrong in the past. I have one question though: how does this apply to MLTRs as far as your experience goes? I'm not an exclusive relationship kinda guy (pickup got me to completely mistrust women; I'm starting to think it's a friggin curse), but I'm curious how this applies to keeping a girl around on a non-exclusive basis, since none of my MLTRs last very long - max. 2 months.

It's scary, but I just realized how different the tools for starting and maintaining a relationship are... I may be getting good at sarging, but I just realized that I wouldn't be capable of keeping any of the girls I hooked up with long-term. Kind of a scary revelation; I guess I was created for casual hookups.

Locke at his best. Great post, buddy

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On we plough.

Love,

Ace

It is a long post. But you also have to invest time into some things if you want to create change within yourself and your situations.

@Guest:

clinginess is NOT neediness or attached-ness.

Being clingy goes back to showing the negative signs of neediness. You have to be your own person that wants to include another into that life. Or you have to be your own person that wants to be part of the others life. Hopefully both.

Being clingy will only come off as controlling, overbearing, and non-independent. Women like strong figures. You can still be needy and strong; you just have to keep trying things out to find a middle ground.


@Infamous:

Don't stop reading and then start making assumptions. How do you know what the point is unless you read the entire thing?

And no, neediness is not a weakness. It is how you display it, how it controls you, and how you calibrate it that makes it harmful or helpful.



@Ace_Of_Spades:

Thanks Man! There will be more posts on this kind of stuff coming soon...hopefully very soon.

You are exactly right in what you said. I am talking about what comes after the M3 model. Of course this is not all the tools you need to maintain a good LTR, but it is certainly an important one.

Yes Ace, when I spoke with you, you had told me a couple things you were saying to one of your Women. I never said anything at the time because it was irrelevant, but I will say now (and I am keeping this broad as to not bring up your personal business) that it did need a little calibration. It was not bad, just a little out of place. Let me know if your fine with me bringing it up or shoot me a Gchat and I'll explain further.

Multiple Long Term Relationships and neediness. That never really came up in my mind, but that is a wonderful question and would probably be relevant for a lot of people here.


Wait, so you DO want your MLTR's to last longer than a couple months?

I would normally say go about it the same way. You brought each person into your life because they added something to you, could offer something, or were awesome people. You (i)enjoy(/i) each one differently.
You obviously want to keep them around because you like them.

I don't remember what thread I posted it in, but I said "everyone likes to be liked." or something like that. Each one of those girls you are seeing are seeing you for the same reason. They want to be part of your life; so they are giving you their time and attention. You have to return that. Escalate your neediness. Reciprocate with your attention. they want it.

But thats when the tricky part comes into play.

You MAY even be doing things right Ace. Maybe you are escalating things properly; showing them affection, getting it in return. Using the needs wants and desires properly. However, have you considered that because you are doing it so well that you are escalating it to a level where they begin to want you all for themselves (but realize this isn't going to happen, so they move on)?

You have to make sure that you are not advancing it to the point where they have some dependency. Again, dependency is not bad but it is beyond neediness; it is a point in a relationship where they will begin to not just be a part of your life, but be a part of YOU. And once at this point, most normal people would begin to expect monogamy.

I can't speak from experience on this one, but I can say that you will have to do a lot of trial and error. Give them (and receive) some of their wants and needs but find a point where you don't take it too far. You are fine with them being attached. When they get to a point where you see the initial blossoming of the relationship and have a feeling it will go far, I personally would skip everything and go right to communication.

Let them know that you want to be part of their life and want them to be part of yours. Explain it is no fault of theirs and they ARE what you want them to be, what YOU want. That you DO need them. That they are providing everything and more. But then bring up the bombshell. Tell them you want to continue the relationship; tell them you are open to most things - that they should bring it up if you are not giving them something they need; however, also tell them that at this point and time, even though you do care for them, you also care for others.

I doubt that will help too much, but for now that is all I have. I will think about it more.



@general:

The tools are different. The GAME changes entirely. Because when you get to this point, it really isn't a game. It's part of your life. I cant stress enough that communication is wonderful. You have to balance the fun relationship aspect with the serious relationship aspect too. You want it to get deep - as deep as it can go. Thats an LTR. But you want to get to that depth and still be able to be easy going and awesome.

If the entire time you are swimming down to the bottom of that pool and allowing the other person to breath from your oxygen tank, then when you get to the bottom they will have no choice but to depend on your to breath into their lungs. Invite them down! But make sure you have them bring their own bottle of oxygen.

Being great at sarging is one thing. That is another tool. If that is all one of you wants, fine. But Ace is the best example I could have hoped for. It makes my point really clear. He wants more than that and can't seem to figure out how.

Each one of you MUST better yourselves. You can't just use the "tools." A lot of PUAs revert back to some bad habits once they find a certain special someone. You have to maintain who you have become - that is who they wanted and will want. (Intro to another post I am working on; another tool on how to be successful in an LTR)

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Locke, good stuff.

I always get a little sad when people say PU makes them hate/mistrust/bla bla bla women. It's the dark spot many PUAs hit.

Yeah, you get to understand that women are human beings. That should be illuminating, not devastating, right?

There's got to be a middle ground. Not pedestals, not mistrusting women.

This goes for me too.... I hate girls.

_________________
- Zip

Question: how do I decrease the needyness of my girlfriend? She's sometimes too much into me, and I really need her to back off once in a while. PLUS, this needyness is somehow driving me away.. and I really want to save this relationship.

Didn't quite get on how to do that from your post.. did I miss it?

_________________
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DeAngelo: What's up fool?
AFC: Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

@Facher:

In the post, I talked about being over-needy. If you are too needy to soon, you will do exactly what she is doing - pushing the other person away.

First Facher, you are going to have to ask yourself why you want to save this relationship. IF you want to save this relationship. Is her being clingy pushing you away, or are you subconsciously turning the things she does INTO seeming clingy?

Once you figure that out, you can only do a couple things.

Although humans can be programmed and with a little reading, it isn't hard to do; I don't recommend trying anything like that (plus, right now I don't have any ideas on how to do it)....you could try getting her to mirror you?

Make yourself a little more distant. Don't pick up every phone call. Don't make yourself available to hang out every time she asks. Change the dynamic of your communication. Hopefully she will either take it as a hint, or just inadvertently start withdrawing herself a little. Both would be good, and they have worked for me.

You can't do much more than that; the only other thing you can do is sit her down and talk to her. Explain the situation: "I am into you, I like you, I like where this is going, da da da da da, but in order for me to continue this in the direction I want it to go, you have to lay off"

ya know? Something along those lines. Make it CASUAL, but also make sure she knows you are serious. Let her know, too, that it isn't because of something she did, and its not because you don't want to get serious - you do, it is just that your personal barriers or likes and dislikes in a girl are causing you to desire this situation less.

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@ Locke

I'm a firm believer in giving credit where due; this post was one of those situations.

As for my story - sure thing, use it as a case study. If people can learn from my mistakes, I'm happy to share them. Everybody messes up every now and then; if you don't fail, you don't learn, so I'm not embarassed by being AFC at times like I was in that relationship. So beat me on the head with your stick of wisdom as hard as you like; and if you need any more details from me, I'll provide the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The post did help in the sense that I wasn't too involved with my MLTRs - it was just 'come over tonight' or 'Ill come over tonight' with a few sexually charged texts here and there. Becoming a part of their life is the bit that was missing, and while it takes more effort, it's definitely worth it with the quality girls if I keep them longer as a direct consequence of displaying more desire and even need. I had this idea sloshing about in the sewers of my brain; you verbalized it for me. So props up

I'm glad that if I have anymore questions, I'll know where to turn - Locke, you really are an awesome dude.

@Zip

Believe me, oh wise one, I don't like having this attitude. At the same time - I have broken up a couple relationships in my time, made out with a married woman and pulled tons of numbers from girls with boyfriends. My female friends who know of my pickup hobby opened up about their personal lives, and it pains me that even if they are in relationships with great guys I utterly respect (the only reason I don't game them, because some of my friends are just amazing women), they either are unfaithful or not satisfied in some areas and are therefore handing out their numbers and shamelessly flirting. When faced with this amount of evidence for infidelity coupled with my own experience (I got into pickup after my LTR of 2.5 years started cheating), I honestly cannot picture myself in an exclusive relationship.

'Women are all whores, except for you and our respective mothers' is a joke, but what I've seen proved to me that there's a lot of truth to it. Sure, it's a dark pitfall and I hate it. And as much as I hate it, I can't think of a way to change that belief.

I guess in a sense this could be a good thing - if I do end up in a LTR, it will be with a real high quality woman who'll be able to turn that belief around for me. Right now, I have to quote Paul Janka:

'Im more selective about who I have dinner with than about who I have sex with'

@the general assembly

If anyone here's willing to give me a therapy session to fix this trust issue, I'd be forever in their debt.

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Love,

Ace

Just popping in to say that I goofed up when creating this section of the forum!

I accidentally had the entire "Relationships" section set so that non-registered users can post in it as guests, but now that's fixed.

Sorry! Won't happen again.

Please ignore this post after reading it. Do not quote this, reply to this, or whatever, unless you do it in a new thread.

@ Hobbit

oh my....furry friend! You should not be selling yourself on these forums. You might just get some awkward offers.... cough cough. 300 'roses'!

@ Ace_Of_Spades:

None of the actions you described were at all "AFC." Like I said, they were good, just out of place.

When you were saying how you had missed the girl; you had only met her twice and just begun the long distance relationship (LDR for future posts).

Everyone should take notice that those simple words will change the dynamic of the relationship. It will put the other party in a different mindset and get them thinking. It is another perfect example of how you display neediness and start to develop things.

If done at the appropriate time, you will make the relationship stronger. You will begin to go deeper; it is an implication of the more serious side of things...but without blatantly making things too serious.

Butttttttt, if you do it too soon or at the wrong time, that mindset you put them will become detrimental to things. It IS a sign of neediness. If they are not ready for you to need them, or them to need you, they will make the choice to back away.

To go back to the initial post, you have to do it in stages. Work on each other's wants. Build towards working on each other's desires. Then finally when the time is right, pull neediness into the equation.


Ace. Maybe it is not a trust issue that you have to work on. Maybe this is just how things are? In the most respectful manner I can stir up, I would like to say maybe you should think about building a different mindset.

This was actually something just brought to my attention (ref:everyone's a teacher sometimes). Maybe instead of thinking that women are whores because they cheat, think about it the same way as you justify having MLTR's yourself.

You have different needs. Each woman you see fulfills those needs. However, because each person is different, they all do something different for you. Maybe women are the same way (dishes, do them...k thx!! lol). Maybe you are satisfying every want and desire they have....but they have also found others that offer something completely different.

Believe me when I say that I am spouting this off in hypocrisy; this is a mindset I have just begun to realize the existence of. I am still struggling to crawl into it. However, it makes sense to me - which is the reason I am willing to try it out.

And remember too man: a lot of people love attention. Just because they are giving out their numbers and flirting, does not mean they are changing how they feel about you. They just don't always realize how it might change how you feel about them. Work on making it so you care, but not so much that it WILL change how you feel. It is about inner game.

It sucks, I know. People like us love to care. It is a good thing and bad thing. It allows us to be as awesome as we are. But it also will sometimes make things harder for us. We want to care as much as possible. I never want to care any less. But that is the key to this discovery: You have to figure out how you can still truly care deeply, but at the same time give them the freedom to be who they want to be and do the things they want to do.

It is not infidelity if you just keep your mind focused on what you two have and share. Forget about the others. They are not even there. If you have something great, preserve it - why does it really matter if she has other great things other places? Because if you think about it, running MLTR's, you do too.

Now, in reference to "just coming over tonight" da da da da da, that is exactly your problem. And you have realized it. Now change it.

Instead of inviting her over for blow jobs three times a week, have her come over...sit down with a cup of coffee and tell stories about your youth. Skip the sex for that night - trust me dude, it is powerful. Even if she makes advances....say something like: "nahhhh, you don't know enough about me yet, today is talk day." But make sure you don't do something like that until you have gauged things - the "relationship" MUST be ready for something like that. It is heavy stuff: you have to make sure she can lift it. Don't forget about dates too. I know they are so "non-modern" and cliche, but taking someone out for Cold Stone or Dairy Queen (whatever it is in Europe) and then chatting about the things they wish their parents would have done differently with/to them is a good start.

Oh, and also remember that while you talk about serious things....keep it positive, light, and fun. Cocky funny. Make the situation easy going, but talk about non easy going things.

Being serious while talking about serious things is another level of the "relationship" - for way later up the road.

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thanks man, I appreciate the support. Writing is tough...I should actually be doing some right now, but instead I find myself browsing through pictures of animals and their personalities....what the?

haha. anyway, bringing controversy to the forums is what makes pick-up interesting. If we all had the same mindset and used the same method, neither you nor I could advise and guide the broad range of people on the forums; we wouldn't have anything to offer...since it's all written down

throw some ideas my way sometime - I love to read new things. 00.Locke@gmail.com

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thank u so much. I think this post will reallly help me out

well written