I've been dating an HB10 for about 2.5 years now. Perfect body, gorgeous face, huge rack, the works. When I first got to college, I gamed her away from about 8 other guys who were vying for her attention.

She fell in love with me hardcore. I did the same.

Not only was she insanely good looking, but also smart - probably the only girl I've ever meet who can keep up with me in an intellectual conversation. We had amazing sex for about the first year and half. Then things slowed down a bit. Something changed. Some of my friends have told me that it seemed like I was taking her for granted.

Around the time things started getting bad, we moved in together for the past school year, which may have been a mistake. We also work at the same job, and we're in some of the same clubs. Over the past several months, we began to drift apart.

For the duration of this time, a friend of mine and her were in an extracurricular together, at which they are both enormously talented. He was also my big brother in my fraternity. They bonded over being very talented at this activity, and because he was my big, we were close friends. Or so I thought.

I taught him about pick-up. My girl had been fascinated by it since I first introduced her to it years ago, and she constantly confirmed how accurate it was and how much it worked on her. So she and I made it our mission to help out my friend with the ladies. In the course of things, I also told my friend about everything going wrong with my relationship (i.e. how we'd been less happy since we started living together, etc).

So the three of us started to hang out all the time, and after several months of us being close friends, I found out recently that he'd been talking to my girl online behind my back for the past couple weeks, telling her that she and I weren't right together, and that I was a huge asshole for believing in pick-up and not believing that people are "destined" to be together.

Admittedly, I got very caught up in my own things (i.e. politics), and let the emotional connection fade over time... We were at a low point in our relationship - and he capitalized on it.

Long story short, I found out he kissed her once, about a week before we decided to "take a break." And she lied about it. I found out b/c she left her gmail account logged on and I saw a chat they were having the night after we broke up.

She cried hysterically about the whole thing. Several times. She seems very genuinely upset for violating my trust.

At any rate, she came to her senses this week and gave my ex-friend the LJBF talk... He's an uber-Christian, no sex before marriage, super-AFC type - which makes what happened all the more embarrassing. The ironic thing is that I know there's no chance in hell he would've been able to get close to her were it not for the PUA stuff I taught him... Be careful who you teach this stuff to.

Basically, she's realized how stupid she was and is trying to get back together with me. She also told me that she wants to have a threesome with me and another girl - something I've always told her I wanted but she previously was skeptical about. It seems like she really wants to make things work.

I feel like this relationship is the real deal. Before, I honestly could see myself spending the rest of my life with this girl. I still could for the most part. She wants to get back together with me, but I'm struggling right now with a mixture of really bad emotions from this experience.

I'm still angry about what happened, and I obviously I find it hard to trust her now. Although I had been cheated on before with a previous LTR, so perhaps I wasn't very trusting from the get-go, which probably led to this whole sequence of events in the first place. I'm also torn because she cheated on her ex, around this same time in the relationship (about 2.5 years in), and never told him about it.

I guess what I'm looking for help with is what I can do to make sure this never happens again. I want to give her another chance, and I'm trying really hard at the moment - but my pride and my ego are really damaged by what happened. I'd appreciate any advice I can get.

Well, if I understand anything about women, it's that they are very emotionally driven, and if they don't "feel" secure, they will drift away into a more appealing situation, regardless wether or not the "facts" make sense.

Us men have our basic operations too, and you can't hold these things against people, just understand them and accept them, then you can make it work.

I believe - if she feels safe enough (comfort) and attracted enough (not letting things get boring by doing EVERYTHING together - eg. have a life of your own, makes you more interesting) then she sure as hell should stay comfortable with you. And if someone can't appreciate a great situation, you can't change that, and they shouldn't be in it in the first place.


BTW your friend is a self-deceiving bastard.

VJ,,, the biggest problem I see is that at some point the relationship drifted. That does happen. But if you plan on just being the guy you are and relaxing in your relationship, then it's probably going to happen again.

Now you can certainly approach things from a differant angle and more actively manage things,, but that's work. If you're up for it, well great. Work your butt off.

Lastly, your girlfriend is a cheater. That's a real downer. I mean,,, I bet you she really is a nice lady. But a lot of guys, including me, would give her an immediate shut down for that. It's not a required move, but I've been through that drama before.

If I was you, I would just take a pass on her.

Good luck.

Yeah I always assumed that's what I would do in this situation. It sucks though because we live in the same apartment, work together, and are taking LSAT classes together. If we break things off there's no way I can avoid her completely for the next 3 months. Still something I have to consider though, and thanks to both of you for giving me your input.

I seem to have a knack for attracting girls who want to be in a LTR but end up lying to me somewhere down the line. Are there even any honest girls out there? I wonder if this is simply going to be a problem in any LTR, b/c this is just how girls are (from my perspective at this moment at least). I mean let's say she's out with her friends and an MPUA runs perfect game on her - and by her I mean any girl. How would it ever not work if she "feels" like it's the right thing to do?

Makes me wonder if LTRs are even worth my time, u know?

At the same time though, she's been very honest with me lately about the type of guy she wants to be with. And it sounds like me, in my ideal form, just not me at the moment. We've talked about evolutionary psychology and all that, so she's very aware of what drives her evolutionarily. Essentially she wants to be a trophy wife married to a successful lawyer. I wouldn't mind that, really. But I do get the sense from this whole experience that she might not stick with me if the chips were down.

I just wonder, and I'd like to get your guys' opinion on this: Is it even possible for women to have good character - given their emotionally-driven psychology?

There's also the issue of how much I still love her and care about her. This girl means everything to me - even after she cheated. And I say with full knowledge of how AFC it sounds. It also doesn't hurt that we continued having sex while she thought she might be in love with the other guy, and that they only kissed and never did anything more than that.

This whole thing just sucks. A lot. I'm sorry for emoting so much on here. It's just so fucking difficult to find anyone else who actually understands women these days. If anything this incident has made me realize I need to get some better guy friends who "get it." Maybe I should join a lair, lol.

Well, remember, men cheat too, just for different reasons. Women cause of their emotions, men because of their penises. People make mistakes, you give them a chance, but at some point you decide for yourself whether or not they're worth your time.

If you feel like you always attract the same situation, then you could do some serious thinking about what it could be that you do that either attracts this kind of girl OR, drives her to behave that way.

Sorry to see the shit coming down on you like that Bro. I've been there. The pain is fucked up and doesn't want to go away.

Maybe you can get other opinions, because I don't pretend to be an expert. But in my experience, I've never encountered a lady who was a cheater and then did not cheat again. Like I said, I bet you your girlfriend is really nice. I bet everyone probably likes her, but assuming she's a cheat, she just has that one brain defect that when things are tough, her brain gives her the green light to stray.

In the end it's not even a moral issue. The issue is you feeling all fucked up, for nothing you did.

Oh,,, and also consider as no small matter. All the fucking work you are now doing in college will not mean shit if you hook up with the wrong chick. If you want to think long term,,,, think right now,, you guys can't even get your shit together when it's easy. Try adding kids and career presure. Dude, I've seen guys fucking lose it all.

ANyways seems like you lost it with this lady. There are ways to get things on track, but even that's iffy....

Anyways,,, OK,,,, here's my advice, forget the rest. Go out and bang 10 differant women and go back to your girlfriend and say "I'm ready to talk".

That will work like a fucking charm for so many reasons.

Do you have One-Itis?

Cheers Dude!

vj7pua, I can't say I know how you feel. If this ever happened to me I don't know what I'd do. I always figured I'd break up the the girl, but I can't really say I would unless the situation came about. To me its about pride, and knowing someone took advantage of my trust would kill my pride and lead me to break up with them. But putting pride aside, I'm not sure. My girlfriend straight up told me she would give me another chance if I kissed another girl because she cares about me that much. I understand where she is coming from but don't think I could do the same.

I dunno what to tell you man. If you want to give her another chance go for it. Maybe this time around she'll realize what she has and not fuck it up.

_________________
The hottest ginger you'll ever meet.

I don't have an ego, I just love how awesome I am.

96, I totally see where you're coming from. The pride issue is a big one for me as well.

I know enough about how women work that I know I could easily do all the right actions and get my girl to be attracted to me again. I've been doing it and it's been working. But then there's trust and my ego. That's what's really holding me back from investing in the relationship again.

Nightrider, as far as female infidelity goes, do you really think it's a "defect" in girl's heads that make them cheat? It seems to me like it could be an inevitable thing when you get in an LTR with them for a long time - and lately I've been reading some research papers that confirm my suspicion.

Honestly, I'm beginning to think that the human race was simply not made to be monogamous. I mean, I've always been pretty honest with this girl about me being attracted to other women. This of course bothers her still to this day. It's like a reality she can never seem to face.

Nevertheless I choose never to try to act on those impulses. This whole thing makes me wonder if we even should resist them though. Maybe these impulses should just be embraced and we should all be polygamists *shrugs*

As far as one-itis goes, I don't think I'm too bad off. I know I can find another attractive girl who can make me happy and give me everything I want. The problem is that it's evolved into something bigger for me, philosophically.

I'm not even sure if LTRs are even the way to go anymore. And if they are, they might have to be with someone who's constantly afraid of you straying, b/c it seems like that's the only thing that keeps girls faithful. It's when they know for certain that you're not going to see anyone else that their interest starts to wane - at least that's been my experience.

Interesting conversation VJ
It's funny you mentioned that, because I was thinking the exact same thing myself today. One guy had an issue with his girlfriend because she was the jelous type. I started thinking about that. Seems like if she's jealous of you, that puts you in a position of higher value in the realationship. Which is where we want to be.

Now obviously,,, it can be taken too far. If you old lady really thinks you're screwing around, that may opne the door for her to do the same to get even. Even if you didn't do anything.

Either way VJ,,, Just don't let this shit fuck your head up. Don't start be suspicious and hating women. If you're with the right lady and things are going good, you got nothing to worry about

My thoeries on cheaters are that men and women are the same. Some of us will have the courtesy to say "Look, fuck off, I'm done with you and am going to screw someone else". That's a courtesy I like.

Some of us, just don't care about other people that much.

ANyways, but I don't think it's something to dwell on. That's just another reason a lot of guys will pass on cheaters. It leads to unproductive thought lines.

In the end, I say if you get cheatd on, take advantage of that. Ask yourself "Why am I so fucked over this?" And go deep with it, real deep.

Cheers.

You won't like what I'm about to say, but I wouldn't be helping if I didn't say it.

I think you just want to hear someone say "Yes" to this, but we are saying it's no different between men and women. Both can cheat, for different reasons, but it's up to the individual in the end.

Have you forgotten that it's actually men who are stereotypically cheaters, and not women?

You are making yourself the victim by saying the problem is external, eg. "All women are cheaters". The victim mentality is NOT the way to improve your situation, because it enforces the idea that you don't have to improve. I first learned about this concept from Double Your Dating by David Deangelo. I found a very good article specifically on not having the Victim Mentality, from GrowYourGame.com;

http://www.growyourgame.com/articles/co ... ty-part-1/
http://www.growyourgame.com/articles/co ... ty-part-2/

When nightrider said to ask yourself "Why am I so fucked over this" and to go deep on it, he was echoing what I already said before. Try to think about why you always end up in this situation. It's either a type of girl you attract, or something you do that causes any girl to behave that way.
Tell anyone on the street that you tell your girl you keep thinking about other girls, and they'll say "There's your problem right there." Sure you can use this to DHV in the beginning, but at the end of the day, a woman wants to feel secure and protected by her man, and if she's constantly being reminded you're thinking about other girls, this is going to eat away at her EMOTIONS, which is what drives a woman's choices.

Conker, thanks for the help. Honestly that was exactly what I needed to hear.

Conker the Wise, I need your assistance again on something.
How do I determine which one of these is the scenario? I'm having some problems figuring this part out.

This time around, I do know that I did some things that would drive her to cheat - i.e. being suspicious and jealous. The first time i got cheated on was with a girl who cheats on everyone, as I found out. So I don't think i was completely to blame for driving that one to do it, although my AFCness back in the day probably didn't help.

Nevertheless, the current girl in question has also cheated on someone before - her ex, after about 3 years.

She claims it was because he started ignoring her emotional needs... which is the same reason she gives for her infidelity this time around. I don't deny that this happened, which is my fault. I just wonder if I simply made the same mistake the other guy made, if this is even the real reason it happened, or (I feel like this scenario is the most likely) if I just let her get so much control over me that I started to zone out her voracious emotional needs as a way of escaping her control.

She's the nicest girl in the world, very different from the first girl. She's also a SHB (very high self-esteem), and the first girl was like a 5 or 6 at best - and definitely low self-esteem b/c of it.

So which do you think it is? I recognize that it's my fault that I'm in this situation, but do you think my fault lies in mate selection, or post-selection behavior?

P.S. Everyone else please feel free to weigh in on my problem. Multiple perspectives is always ideal and much appreciated.

That's very flattering, but don't call me Conker the wise you and I both have different experiences, and I happen to have something of interest to you. I'm sure if we talked at length I'd most likely find something you know that's of interest to me.
Well either way you have something to learn, just want to say this in case you get the idea that if you conclude it's the type of girl, then you should just find another. If it were me, and that were the case, I would be inclined to first learn how to deal with this type of girl - you might find that you can do it and it's worth while. And then if you do learn how to deal with this type and THEN decide it's not for you, then you will be more certain of your choice.

My immediate thoughts come back to your statement that "she can't accept that I'm attracted to other girls, no matter how much I tell her" (paraphrased of course) sounds like you have some comfort repair work to do. In my mind, this could easily be the single reason she's getting the primal urge to migrate to another guy, depending on just how often you reminded her of this and in what way. And in my mind, it can also be the driving force behind her "voracious emotional needs" as she tries various primal tests to see if you are faithful to her.

Feel free to elaborate if you think I missed something.

As for her "ideal guy", remember if you change a woman's mood, you change her mind. There may be truth in what she's saying but there's a lot to be said for changing moods - I'm a guy, and it's even happened to me - some girls I've been with have "convinced me" to be attracted to them, where I previously thought I couldn't be