Background Story:

I recently bumped into a girl I knew 10 years ago in a local club, chatted a bit, light flirting but I didn't pursue because she has a kid and as a rule I've never wanted to involve myself in something like that...few months down the line, I bump into her after a night out, walked her to her car, carried on texting the next couple of days, then I rang her. We spoke for half an hour or so and she subtly asked me out for the following Saturday.

We went out for a meal, then to a pub nearby. Sat there chatting for hours, then ended up making out on the sofa in the pub a little. She dropped me home, made out in her car again and that was that...

A couple weeks ago we were meant to go for dinner, but I was unwell, so she came round to mine to drop me off some brownies to cheer me up...

We talk pretty much every other day on the phone, for on average an hour and a half and it's always me who has to cut the call off. As well as talking on SPAM most of the time.

We had a date yesterday, where I took her to Winter Wonderland (a massive Christmas fair in London), the kinda date she wouldn't forget in a hurry. In terms of investment, we spent equal amounts of money on eachother, she was very affectionate and touchy feely, holding hands, cuddling, kissing, dancing, gazing into my eyes etc. The whole day was a lot of fun and she commented many times how good a date it was and how impressed she was with my choice.

She dropped me off into town cos I needed to pick up a couple of bits, we made out in her car for a bit and then she drove off, singing to herself. Minutes later I messaged my boy seeing if he wanted to go out. So we went to the club where I first found this girl. We'd been messaging a bit and I asked her what her plans were, she said she was going out with her girl, I asked where to and got no reply.

A couple hours later, I'm walking from the bar, and I see her. She asks me what I'm doing there and I told her me and my buddy fanced going out. Then she introduced me to her friend, who gave me a pretty dirty look, but I shrugged that off and stayed polite. Carried on talking to her and could feel her friend giving me dirty looks still. Said to her "I don't want to intrude on your night, so I'll leave you girls to have fun" and went to give her a kiss. She turned her face and I ended up kissing her on the cheek. I then said to her with a smile on my face "so you're not gonna kiss me?" She said, "No, I'm shy". I said "ok, enjoy your night" walked off and carried on my night with my buddy, drinking, dancing and talking to (but not excplicitly flirting) with a couple of other girls. The whole time I felt her friend watching me and there were about 20 occasions where my date could have spoke to me. I tweeted a couple angry things last night (she doesn't follow me, but could quite easily find my @ from Instagram) and this morning I had seen she had tweeted "Really?!?!?" with a few disappointed smileys at 4:30am...

I've had no texts, calls or anything from her since I spoke to her in the club, but she did like a youtube video I posted on her fbook wall at the same time she tweeted.

This is all weird as fuck to me, considering hours before she was sending me selfies she took of us on a ferris wheel and hours before that she was happily rubbing my thigh and eating my face in front of hundreds of familes, kids, etc

Sorry for the essay, some opinions on how to approach this would be great.

_________________
REBORN

Ok here are my views, subject to peer review - this is from the view of a relationship expert not pickup guru
so some may disagree with me

ok this is the first part I would not be happy with. You spoke for a whole hour on the phone the first time you spoke on the phone, you already exhaust interesting topics you would want to chat about on a date - you want her to wonder about you so she gets the excitement of looking forwards to the date and finding out more! Wet her appetite - keep phone calls short, build that rapport as you did and after some fasincating discussion say "I can't wait to hear more but I got to run just now, are you free on /time+date/" make a date right there. If she isn't available ask her to check her schedule and get back to you on when she's free and make a date.

Which leads me to your second area for improvement - she set the date.
Most women want a man who makes them feel like a woman!
The reason she was talking to you for an hour on the phone is more than likely because she was waiting for you to set a date.

Finally, who ended the conversation? You or her? this is not trivial.
I hope it was you.

The main thing to do is set a date, then get off the phone.
You are a busy guy, you love meeting in person, but during after hours you have things to be doing, not hanging on the phone.

Hope this helps
Ok you obviously had a deep connection and she was enthusiastic about you, the fact she brought round brownies shows she was invested. She was attractive enough to let you make plently of sub-optimal moves but...
MAN ALIVE! What are you doing!
You are making yourself so available at this stage in the relationship?
On the phone your job is to make her smile, then set a date
I'm in an open relationship and I don't even talk to my girlfriend on the phone that much, and she's always keen to come see me after work

be your own man, have stuff going on that you love, create a space for her to want to come into
don't over pursue
good
no No NO! Once in a while to say something funny and make her smile, to remind her of you.
Not most of the time.

Have you ever heard of supply and demand? you are constantly in supply too early on in the relationship therefor the value of your company goes down. Once she has had time to fall in love with you (2-3 months if you do everything right, longer if not) you can spend all the time together in the world and talk on SPAM when you are apart. Give her space to miss you and reflect on you and her feelings to grow.

Turn it all around. You demand, she supplies. Not vice versa.
nice date, now she wanted time to herself to be with her friends. Show your independence. Let her. Have a great time with your own friends.


Ok first you should have checked for IOIs before going in to kiss her, she was with her friend who was scowling at you and you know how much social proof is important to ladies, therefor I wouldn't have asked "so you're not going to kiss me" - it sounds like you are admonishing her - and in front of her friend - and she is obviously not going to kiss you because otherwise she would have kissed you. After you kissed her cheek it would have been better to just smile and say, "have a really good night! lets catch up after the weekend" and then walked off cheerfully. Don't make any awkwardness worse. These things can be talked about alter in private, if they are a problem, with openness, curiosity, and without making people uncomfortable. For the main part make it easy for people to retreat. You're strong. You're independent. You're out with your buddy. You're having fun. She can come talk to you if she wants to.

The other thing you could have done was charmed her friend by being curious about her, I don't know what your skill at disarming people is. Ask questions, take interest in her. Give her reason to think she misjudged you.



bad move, if you need to vent call up a friend and speak to them about it over a pint
do not air your laundry on a public forum


yes because you allowed things to get awkward
Yes but she was not in love with you yet, you were just dating, so when things got awkward she quit.
Had you had sex yet?

My recommendation: Give her space.
In a week get in touch to to set a date.


lets see what others have to say about my proposal maybe they have better ideas.

Hope this helps

_________________
those who say it can't be done should get the fuck out the way of those doing it

Thank you for the above.

I caved before reading this and messaged her saying "I think I bumped into your twin last night". Prob shouldn't have initiated the chat, but I'm not the kind of guy to wait and see what happens.

She's messaged me some huge, very apologetic essay, saying she's not big into PDAs, past experiences have told her to be reserved in public, her brother cousins and friends were in the club last night, she felt i was trying to mark my territory & felt uncomfortable because we weren't yet official (despite her not talking to any other guys), kissing in a club is different from kissing in public places, she thought I was pissed off with her and ignoring her.

But essentially, what I've read from her messages is, she was out with her friends as a single girl, she didn't want others to think otherwise and even though she wasn't talking to any other guys, it was too early for any of that, in her own territory. It isn't the wild misunderstanding she makes out.

I don't think anything can be salvaged from the situation, but I'm expecting her to call me tonight. I completely fucked up through not thinking it through.

With regards to your observations:

1) Yes I'm aware we spoke too long the first call, I had no intentions of asking her out at that point, just wanted to guage interest. The date was 10 days after that and for the 7 hours we were out, there were no awkward pauses.

2) she's come to know my schedule, so she knows the days I'm in the gym and my rest days, If I haven't called her if she's expecting a call, she'll message me asking if I'm free to chat

3) It's hard to ignore her on SPAM, usually she'll message to say good morning, message around lunch time to see how my day is going, then again mid afternoon, then ask me how my day was afterwards. I wouldn't say its a day long flowing conversation

4) The IOI before I went to kiss her was the same one she had been giving me earlier on in the day. I thought doing this in a club was a shit-test to see how I felt about kissing her in a club, because I hadn't told her I was out, so she might have thought I was chasing tail. Her friend didn't hear what I said cos I whispered it in her ear when my lips hit her cheek

5) I agree, terrible idea to tweet about it. But the damage is done now, if she's read it.

6) No we haven't had sex yet, getting to that point will be more difficult, slow and painful than other girls I've dated cos she's a single mum, so opportunities to get her alone are few and far between and generally, I give her too much respect because I've known her too long.

I fucked myself up by messaging her as she was apparently giving me space to cool off so she could call later. Not sure I'll even be bothered to arrange another date. She always has the excuse that she needs to get a babysitter for her boy, so on to the next I think.

_________________
REBORN

I know you are thinking next so feel free to disregard
It isn't necessarily unsalvagable if she took the time to send you an essay, she invested
or maybe she just felt bad
you can raise your value by introducing something along the lines of "give you some time to cool off, call you next weekend,"
give her a buzz after a week and set up a date that can lead to sex - for example "I know things got a bit odd so why don't you come over with a bottle of wine, I'll make dinner, and we can just relax and watch a movie nothing major" --- that way you can eat, she's bringing wine so she's investing, then you can watch half a movie
yes and that's fine because you were just dating and she's not in love with you yet
be the better man, anyone she speaks to can't compete with you if you are the best man.
if she calls, tell her not don't worry about the vibe has got too serious and out of hand
say you should both just relax and have fun, have some time to cool off, and set a date for an evening not too soon
do not stay in touch in the meantime, if she gets in touch, use it to set a date
if she has agreed to a date already just give reasonable responses, say you're looking forwards to seeing her and will catch her then

I know I'm telling you what to do but these are obviously just my suggestions, I dont' expect you to do anything just because I say it
why is she expecting a call?
only agree to a chat once in a while so that it's a novelty and makes her feel special
don't become part of the furniature

see above suggestion
did you want a relationship?

yeah you did lol, but you live and learn
maybe if she's a single mum she should be the one making it easy on you, not going out to see other men
she has made irresponsible decisions in the past leading her to become a single mom which lowers her value as a mate because unless she has acknowledged that then she is likely to continue making irresponsible decisions

_________________
those who say it can't be done should get the fuck out the way of those doing it

Not really concerned with anything before the Winter Wonderland date. Fact is, she was into you to that point and I didn't see anything blatantly wrong. Shit doesn't go perfect all the time but at the end of the day she was into you so good job. Only thing is sleep with her asap and the instagram thing was not good to do.

Personally, if it were me, I'd lose some interest after how she acted. Her bitchy friend is more of a bad mark on HER, not you. Her acting awkwardly in public is her issue as well. Fact is, sounds like the relationship is not balanced and she's not as serious about you as you are of her. If I chat to you for an hr a day and treat you good, your friends should love me before they meet me. If not, you're not telling them which says you aint serious. Single girls night out or whatever, she should be an adult enough to say hi for a couple mins and go back to her friends. Regardless of whether it was the 1st date or the 10th. Fact is, whether you 2 are in a rs yet or not, if she was truly serious enough to be exclusive, she would have told her friends about you to where it would be awkward NOT to act close to you when she saw you. Her friends would be smiling when they saw you because she just told them how much fun she had at the WW thing. My guess is, she's having fun with you, keeping her options open. Do the same. Don't see this girl as special because she aint and she's not showing you that. You know what it is, so drop her as a priority or main option.

My next dates would be at my place and for sex. No more spending money, no more 1 hour chats daily. She wants to treat you like a fuck buddy when you're out, fine, that's the role now.

Word
Word

_________________
those who say it can't be done should get the fuck out the way of those doing it

ok so she admitted to having a nosey on my twitter...

_________________
REBORN

Forgot to say... thanks to those who have responded. We spoke, sorted it all out now I'm gonna leave her for a few days. If she gets back in touch, I'll suggest we watch a DVD round mine (hers if getting a babysitter is problematic)

If I don't hear from her I kinda have someone liked up for the above anyway...

_________________
REBORN

Good man keep gaming have many options.

Glad you spoke and things are on the up and up
Would you mind letting us in on any details for my own curiosity?

also cheers for acknowledging the posts hope it proved useful

all the best

_________________
those who say it can't be done should get the fuck out the way of those doing it

Was she just pissed because you were out and didn't think you would be out?

There hasn't been any update really since...

We spoke briefly on SPAM but she was in a mood, so I left it there. And haven't bothered her since. In the meantime, her twitter seems all to be shots fired at me (things like if you Don't appreciate her, someone else will etc...). Her photos on SPAM have changed to ones she knows I like. She's liked every picture Ive put up on instagram this week.

Might call her tonight, like nothing ever happened and arrange a DVD night.

_________________
REBORN

Yeah, she was pissed you were out and didn't tell her. Probably jumping around in her head saying you're a free agent on the prowl behind her back. Most women are fucked up and women with kids have baggage which means they're fucked up. We joke about it but there's a lot of truth in it.

Just ignore her and move on. She seems insecure and has too much drama going on that she's going to drag you into. Don't get caught in the pussy trap!

And if she didn't unexpectedly turn up in the club, you could've got off with someone else and not told her right? Played the two of them. Right now you're behaving like her needy, little brother. Give her some space and quit fucking up any spare time she has man.

I think this is on her. She dropped him off, he texted her where she was going and SHE didn't reply. Then he went out with his friend. I see nothing wrong with that. If he had double texted he would've looked needy. She didn't reply so if anything it sounds like she is the one who was trying to be a free agent. When OP was out he did the correct thing and acknowledged her. SHE acted weird and she didn't kiss him so she's trying to act unattached. She's werid...how can you think a guy is on the prowl, but also think he was marking her as his territory? Doesn't cumpute