I've been living in mexico for five months now, having live all the rest of my life before in the usa. I've noticed a stark contrast with the peoples' views on cheating.

I had so many friends who had girlfriends, but would never think of cheating, because they were so attached to their girlfriends, they didn't know what they'd do if they lost them.


Here in mexico, the men do the cheating. I've asked all my male friends when females were not present, even those in "exclusive" long term relationships, have expressed a universal opinion to me: what she doesn't know doesn't hurt her. That is, as long as she doesn't know you're cheating, you don't hurt her, so its okay.



I try to explain this to my father, who values honesty so highly. The americans think honesty is so fucking important, more important than everything. Here in mexico, honesty is cool, but not the most important, social harmony is more important. Truth is shaped to make relations easiest.



Thus, I think one reason for their views.


In addition, I find most mexican men are less AFC naturally than americans. I talk to them about game stuff, not caring about girls, high status shit, while they may not totally understand everything, they always agree, its a fundamental precept of their culture, machismo, while machismo does not exist, at least where I grew up in berkeley, california. My friends from the usa usually try to fight me about pua ideas, where the mexicans look at me and say "whats new man, I already know this".




In addition, because I think there are no ethics in our society, that is how it is fundamentally built, there is no reason to have ethics in relationships.


I do not like hurting girls, only when we're fucking, and I'm rough, but I do not want to damage them, I just do not care about them. if I hurt them, sorry, so be it, but I sure as hell won't waste a second to do what I have to, I almost cannot cry, it troubles me at times.



I was thinking about it, having a whole bunch of girls who you're "exclusive" with, then you can fuck them without condoms, but you still fuck multiple girls, but they only fuck you, would be best, because then you get the best parts of being in a monogamous relationship, while fucking other girls.


I think you can get some girls to agree to fuck only you and nobody else, but you can fuck other girls, as long as they are satisfied fucking just you. If you fill their time, they won't need anyone else.

I think it depends strongly on the girl you're with. There are girls that should be cheated on, and there are girls that deserve devotion. You determine which is which by spending time with them and carefully weighing how they behave, what they say, what they do.
I have been with girls who were nothing but loyal to me, and showed their devotion, and I was equally devoted back, and spent years turning down every opportunity to cheat.
I also dated massive sluts, who I always knew were sluts, and I slept around behind their backs with no remorse, because I was pretty damn sure they were doing the same, and I never let myself get emotionally involved enough to care.
At the end of the day, you have to give what you get. If you get a good devoted girl, don't be a pig and either commit or leave. If you're just having a fling with a skank, then by all means, sleep around. She'll probably do it regardless of what you do.

I think the PATHOLOGICAL obsession with honestly that so many Americans have is insane. Unconditional honesty is for chumps, and for the weak. Sometimes it takes the stronger man to be able to keep a lie to protect those he loves. What matters more is how your actions affect those who you love. If you fuck your secretary on the side, and you're not even man enough to keep your mangina shut, and your weakness and guilt makes you admit it to your wife, well congratulations. Your family is now destroyed, your kids will be raised in a broken home. On the other hand, if you lie to cheat your family out of money, well, then you're a shitbag.
It's not the lie that determines whether you're a person of character or not. It's the intent and consequence of the lie. Does it harm those you love, or does it keep them safe?

As for the chumps that are vehemently dedicated to their whoreish GFs (I've known several), they are beyond help. I've tried to help friends that were in that situation. They bite the hand that's there to rescue them and keep being the chumps they are as their whore of a GF cheats on them and leaves them time after time, and they keep making excuses. Don't argue with them. They are naive, and haven't learned their lessons thoroughly enough yet. It will only turn them against you and make you a pig in their eyes. One day they might come to realize what chumps they were, and hopefully when that day comes you'll still be friends.

Cheating sucks because there's a better alternative: Open and honest poly relationships FTW. Don't commit to being monogamous if you're not going to be monogamous. Man up.. lying is beta behavior.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

That's bullshit. Every politician and pretty much every successful businessman lies and cheats compulsively, both personally and professionally. That's how they got there. Are you going to tell me that the millionaire and billionaire politicians that constantly get caught with other women are betas? And while he's a grade A scumbag, Silvio Belorusconi is a lot more alpha than a very large majority of PUAs out there.
You're trying to draw a link that's simply not there. In fact, most successful people in life derive success through lies and deception. Lying and cheating may be wrong, but there is nothing beta about it.
PS. I am NOT advocating cheating or lying in a SERIOUS and COMMITTED relationship. Many girls are loyal and devoted, and deserve nothing less in return.

Alllow me rephrase that: Lying to a woman you are in a relationship with because you are afraid of her reaction or rejection is just not a good idea if your goal is long-term happiness.

The ability to lie is generally not considered an Alpha trait. Unethical people who don't particularly care about other people will always lie (either alpha or beta). Also, it's not cheating if a woman has an "I don't care as long as I don't know about it" attitude (I'm guessing this is most of the girls who marry high profile Alphas). There's a lot of girl's who care more about discretion and social consequences than they do about having a monogamous significant other. More betas lie to their significant others than alpha's simply because they fear they will be rejected if they are honest.

Guys, just be congruent with who you are. If you aren't going to be monogamous or have no interest in being monogamous, then don't agree to be monogamous. It's just that easy.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

I'm with wolf on this, and I will debate who is and isn't alpha.

Just cause some dick is a politician, or in a powerful position doesn't make him alpha. Maybe it makes him the product of a well to do family. I don't know, and I don't care.

People lie because they are too insecure to deal with the consequences of the truth. The sad part is, more often than not, exposing the truth doesn't create the reaction people fear that it will.

Life gets easier, and it's easier to be true to yourself and others, and be comfortable in your own skin if you are just 100% honest, 100% of the time. Don't be afraid to tell your wife or girl you want to fuck other women if you do. You never know, you might just get to without dealing with all the bullshit of lying or cheating.

Alpha's lead. Leaders lead by example. The douchebags who cheat all the time aren't leaders, their just guys in powerful positions that are too fucking weak to be honest with themselves. I'd have more respect for a President who openly said he supported polygamy than one who cheated on his wife. The reason you never see that guy as President is because society would shun him, so in a democracy, that guy will never get elected.

So in summary, cheating is queer, and this is coming from a former cheater. I'm a lot happier guy these days, because I'm happier with myself. Why? Because I'm not trying to convince everyone else I'm something that I'm not and I'm not carrying around a shitload of secrets.

That's so ridiculously naive.
Good luck with your divorce.

Winston Churchill was a notorious cheater. So was FDR. So was Stalin. Pretty much every leader in WWII cheated like they'd be gone tomorrow. Are you saying they weren't leaders? They weren't your run of the mill politicians, and none of them were born in to power. Alexander the Great Cheated (probably with men too), Napoleon Bonaparte cheated. Thomas Jefferson cheated. Benjamin Franklin cheated. Genghis fucking Khan cheated with so many women, that there's a good chance he's your granddaddy. Albert Einstein, John F Kennedy, Julius Caesar, etc etc etc. The list goes on. You'll have a hard time finding a great historic leader/figure that did NOT cheat on his wife.
Are you really more alpha than all of these men? Because you don't lie? Really, bud? If I had to wager, I'd say your definition of an alpha is crafted by the American school system and the Disney mind factory.

You say douchebags cheat, and they're not leaders. Newsflash. Pretty much EVERY leader in history was a massive, massive douchebag and liar that stepped on many enemies, bystanders, and even friends to get in to their position of power, and then to keep it. The historical leaders like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Napoleon? You only hear the good. You don't hear just how twisted these men were. If they were any less twisted, they'd never accomplish half of what they did, and you'd never hear of them. There's a great timeless myth fed to commoners that the virtuous are successful and powerful. That's patently false. The virtuous are used and whipped around by those who are willing to do whatever it takes to get them what they want. This applies in politics, war, business, love, etc. Good people get stepped on and the world passes them over. I know good people like that. I also know very successful people (very closely). They are not men of virtue, even though I'm sure you'd think many of them were at first glance.

Listen to these wise words by world renowned steroid and synthol abuser Greg Valentino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ0R_657HLk
"To get where Arnold got in life you have to be willing to step on a few fingers, and step on a few friends, and fuck a few people over. You don't get to that level without that
In this world you're either the barracuda, or you're the little minnow swimming around like this. Arnold is the barracuda."
I sure hope you're not looking to a famous successful figure as a role model, because if you were to truly dig deeper in to their character to look for virtue, you'd be in for a serious disappointment.

Wow, that was one hell of a response. One that I wish I had time to really respond to. But I don't. All I can say is that just because a bunch of guys you name cheated, yet are generally regarded as great leaders doesn't make cheating or lying alpha behavior. Instead I'd say it probably means that nobody is perfect, and everybody fucks up every now and again. I'd venture to guess most of these guys aren't proud of their accomplishment of fucking around on their wives, which is why they like like a motherfucker when the scandal is first found out.

My point was that cheating is not an alpha behavior. After you've done it and if you've ever taken the time to fully analyze what you did and why, most everyone probably wishes they had dealt with the problems, urges, feelings, whatever made them do it in the first place, in another, better way.

Again, I say cheating and lying is not alpha behavior. Maybe I could say this another way, those so called great people you refer to in your post, probably would be regarded as even GREATER leaders, had they not cheated.

One last note, with regards to you saying "Good luck with my divorce." My comment on being honest with your partner comes from experience. After I told my wife everything, she spent about 2 weeks shock. 3 months later we started swinging............Swinging hasn't solved all the problems in our marriage, but my point was, I expected her to pack her shit, load the kids up, and leave. She didn't. Lesson: When you lie because you fear certain consequences, you're just letting fear drive your decision making. Alpha's have the courage to overcome fear and keep it from controlling their decisions.

At this point, I've fucked up enough in my life I'm not naive, and I wouldn't give anyone advice on here that I wouldn't take myself.